Evidence of meeting #7 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mi'kmaq.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to start again at the point that Ms. Bernard got to.
As I really like people putting themselves in ministers' shoes, I will ask you what steps you feel that Minister Jordan and the government should be taking.
What are the first steps that you would like to see taken? A huge number have not been taken over the last 21 years, maybe longer. What would you like to see?
Of course, my questions also go to Mr. Ginnish.
5:50 p.m.
Lennox Island First Nation
I would like to see that the mandate for the negotiation be taken from the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and given to Carolyn Bennett under CIRNAC, because she has the portfolio to work on rights and this is a rights-based issue. It's not about commercial access, as this minister's mandate is.
She doesn't understand. I've heard her speak. She clearly does not understand . For her to call the fishery an illegal fishery.... As minister of the department, she should understand that stuff. Clearly there needs to be some education within the ranks of the government. That's what I would say.
This is the first thing that has to happen. The mandate needs to be moved to a different department.
5:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
The behaviour in Nova Scotia is unfortunate. When a first nation is exercising its legitimate right to a treaty fishery, to be treated that way....
It's heartening to know that not everyone feels that way. According to the latest CTV Nanos poll, 74% of Canadians feel that Mi'kmaq treaty rights should be respected and honoured.
That's how we have to move forward. We have to educate. We have to share. We need the opportunity to sit down with the minister. If we need to educate her, we'll do that. We've been trying to do it relentlessly but have been butting up against....
We did the same thing. We tried again this year to access snow crab. DFO has a science quota of crab of 3,500 tonnes, which they use to generate money for their science program. Why the hell can you not—? And that was originally. There was another set-aside too, for MFU when their lobster fishers were having a hard time. There was a quota that was used to help those fishers when lobsters were in tough times.
Listen, first nations have been in tough times for a couple of hundred years. How about spreading some of that access around?
5:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
Thank you very much.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Chief Bernard, can you talk about what DFO could do to help support your communities in their need to develop their own moderate livelihood fisheries?
5:50 p.m.
Lennox Island First Nation
They should release the RRA envelopes to the first nations so that money could be used for us to do our engagement. We need to be supported in our engagements. We need the minister, whichever one is going to be responsible, to come to our communities and to talk to us. We need that. We need treaty education. We need that support.
DFO can support us in a lot of ways by helping to develop our guardian program, so that we can develop really strong enforcement processes and capacity. This is what we are trying to do, but there's no support for that from the department, and there should be support for that.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
That's fabulous. I really appreciate your response, Chief Bernard.
Chief Ginnish, you talked about the education of your rights and making the space for you to determine what a moderate livelihood is for your communities. Can you speak a bit more about that?
How important is it that Minister Bennett and the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations be at the table?
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
It's absolutely essential. We look at the TRC calls to action. That in itself isn't happening fast enough here in New Brunswick. We have a provincial government that's kind of half-heartedly approaching that. That needs to be embraced.
We're in a situation where we have to look at changing the minister's control of allocation of quotas. You have one person who has more authority in that one position then most any other minister. Her word is it. There is no other. It's about time we gave priority to ourselves in sitting with DFO and moving the ball forward on treaty rights, because it's long overdue.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses from Atlantic Canada. This has been very informative. You've done a very good job of explaining the hardships your communities have faced over many generations. We've heard your perspective on possible solutions. You were also asked to provide input on what you would do if you had ministerial authority.
This is perhaps the other side of the table. I'm curious to get your perspective. How do you see the development or implementation of the Marshall decisions, working with what I call the traditional fisheries, commercial fisheries, the owner-operator, those individuals? Do you have concerns about conservation, or do you think that's a non-issue? Is this really just a question of granting the space, or does one displace the other? How do you see the various communities coexisting in your regions or in your provinces?
I'm more than happy to turn over the remainder of my time, provided you share it equitably, if you don't mind. I would like to hear from both of you.
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
I would begin by following the rule of law. You have conservation. Then you have first nation access, and then you have other user groups. That has not been the case. That has been ignored. As I said earlier, fortunes have been made from resources that our ancestors freely shared. We've been denied. That's how I would start the conversation.
How do we get our first nation communities to be equitable with others? If the unemployment that exists in our communities were anywhere else, there would be movement.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Is it really fair to say that fortunes have been made? I see livelihoods that are made, good livelihoods, but not fortunes in the fishing communities that I know. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
Yes, I guess what I was referring to indirectly was that you have the huge, huge companies. You have Clearwater, which is really remarkable. Now the Nova Scotia Mi'kmaq have a stake in that and their communities can benefit from that. That's remarkable. That's what we'd like to see. We'd like to have other opportunities. We'd like to have a Mi'kmaq brand, to be part of processing and other opportunities, but that has yet to happen.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Yes, fair enough. I'd point out as well that for many of the traditional fishers, these large corporate fisheries, as I call them, are the bane of their existence. They view them as a threat to their livelihoods and their communities as well.
I want to give Chief Bernard some time to respond to some of my questions, but thank you, Chief Ginnish.
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, North Shore Mi’gmaq District Council, Eel Ground First Nation
Thank you.
6 p.m.
Lennox Island First Nation
Thank you.
You were asking about our relationship with the traditional fisheries on P.E.I.
6 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Yes. How do you see it coexisting going forward if there's a complete entrance of indigenous fishers as well, in terms of conservation and livelihoods?
6 p.m.
Lennox Island First Nation
Well, we're already in the fishery. We are fishing side by side to some degree with the traditional fishers, like the commercial, privilege-based fisheries. We've had a really good discussion with them. The younger fishermen especially ask a lot of really good questions. What I learned from that discussion was that they really don't know about the treaty right at all. They were asking some really basic questions, which were really good questions. They were asking, “How come you guys weren't involved in the fishery? Why didn't you go buy a licence when they were $25 a piece?” We had a really good discussion about how we were pushed out of that and our people were completely disassociated with everything that was going on at the time when it came to our natural resources. The questions were really good.
On P.E.I., because we're small, I think it's by doing all kinds of treaty education and getting out there and talking with people and helping everyone to understand that we are the Mi'kmaq, right? We're not here to exploit the resources. We've never exploited resources. We want them to understand that we just want our people to be able to have the same things they have, like fishing in—
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm going to try to get Mr. Battiste in for a few minutes.
Mr. Battiste, you have five minutes or less, please.