Fisheries Committee on Nov. 18th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madam Gill.

Now we'll go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

Minister, we just heard the Conservatives call this Sipekne'katik treaty fishery an illegal fishery. Do you see it as an illegal fishery?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Johns, the first nations have a Supreme Court-affirmed right to fish a moderate livelihood. There is absolutely no question around that. The question, of course, is how we implement that right. That is what we are working towards now.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm really happy to hear you say that. Also, they made an accusation about Chief Sack bringing in warriors. My understanding is that Chief Sack has actually called off warriors coming to the region in the hope that the RCMP would be there to protect them. We didn't hear the Conservatives on the ground calling off fishers who were threatening fishers.

Can you speak about what you're going to do to ensure that those indigenous fishers are protected on the ground and on the water?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I will say there is absolutely no place for violence. There is absolutely no place for vandalism. Although you understand the frustrations people feel, this is not the way to move us forward. The RCMP have been on the ground in the St. Marys Bay area as well as in other areas that have seen some concerns. Of course, the RCMP are regulated through the Province of Nova Scotia, but we as the federal government have made sure that they have the resources they need in order to address these concerns. The RCMP have a job to do and they are there to do that job.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, we've been told you've been meeting regularly with Mi'kmaq leadership in Nova Scotia, but we've heard from other first nations leaders about a lack of communication from you and the need for political dialogue away from the table. Are you prepared to commit to regular meetings with first nations leadership across the entire region to discuss fisheries issues?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Absolutely. I'm happy to meet with all of the first nations to make sure that we do move this forward. I have actually, in the past, met with many of the first nations in all of the provinces, right across the country, but particularly in Atlantic Canada. It's extremely important that we get their fishing plans so that we know what it is they would like to exercise as their moderate livelihood so that we can work with them to make sure that the right is implemented.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, I'm running out of time, I believe. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have about three seconds left, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

If you'd had a bit more and got a question in, I would have allowed an answer.

We will now go to Mr. Williamson for five minutes or less, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Jordan, for being here today.

In testimony before this committee, first nations leaders who we've heard from, along with lawyers and academics, believe indigenous communities can regulate and oversee an indigenous fishery outside of DFO control.

What do you think of that view we're hearing repeatedly at committee?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would say that DFO has a responsibility to make sure that the fishery is sustainable for the long term. However, I would also say that I think it's important that we work with the first nations communities to make sure, as they implement their right, that we have the same goals and objectives. We need to work together to implement that right in a way that is going to make sure they are able to have their moderate livelihood but also in a way we are convinced is not a conservation challenge. These are all things we are having ongoing discussions about, and I would say that it's extremely important that we continue to work together to find the right path forward.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

In the Marshall decisions, the ruling is that government oversight is paramount and that the authority to regulate both indigenous and traditional fisheries resides with the federal government. Do you agree with that court ruling?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I believe the court ruling was very clear on the role that the Government of Canada plays in the fishery. I believe also, though, it was very clear that the first nations have a right that needs to be implemented. I think that finding that balance is what we need to work towards, making sure that we have the ability to implement the right, but also to make sure that we protect the fishery for the long term.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Do you support one fishing season? I recognize that all the different LFAs have different seasons, but within those LFAs, do you support one fishing season as the Government of Canada works towards the moderate livelihood?

I'll point out that the Marshall decision upheld this. The 1999 fisheries committee also recommended this. Today, MP Wayne Easter is also saying that this should be the policy.

Is that your policy?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You know, we are continuing to have negotiations with first nations to make sure they can implement their treaty right. I can't speak to what's going on at the negotiation table. I will say that I have heard very loudly and clearly from commercial harvesters around their concerns.

Conservation will always be what underpins everything we do at DFO. That has to be the number one priority, and making sure the stocks are healthy for the long term is that priority.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

So you're open to establishing a second parallel fishing—

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Please don't put words in my mouth.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

No, I'm asking you a question. I'm going to ask you to clarify. You are open to establishing a second parallel fishery in the LFAs in Atlantic Canada.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

No, you are putting words in my mouth, Mr. Williamson. I asked you not to do that.

What I said was it's extremely important that we implement the first nations right to a moderate livelihood fishery, that the Supreme Court was clear on how the Government of Canada regulates that fishery. That will be part of the negotiations as we go forward.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay.

So do you agree or disagree with your colleague MP Wayne Easter that the indigenous and non-indigenous fisheries should all occur within the regulated seasons?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Easter has a right to his opinion as an MP. He has been very vocal on this issue. He's a former chair of the fisheries committee.

I will say that I will not comment on what is being negotiated at this point. I will say that I have heard from commercial harvesters about their concerns around seasons. This is something that I understand completely, and I will put conservation first in all of the negotiations that I'm having.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

But you're not closing the door to the proposal at the negotiation table of having two separate fisheries in different seasons.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I am not able to speak to what is being negotiated. I will say that I have heard very loud and clear from commercial harvesters what their concerns are—