Fisheries Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Per what Gord said, yes, I think we need to get back to that salmon study because there are a lot of loose ends there that need to be tied up. We've broken that study up and we've gone a fair distance in the current one. It's a little bit disconcerting to see it broken up again because we'd only get maybe two or three meetings in before we break for Christmas.

I'm wondering if, in fact, we should tidy up this one and then take the break and get down and focus and concentrate on the salmon study when we get back so we get some continuity, because as I say we're losing our momentum. We've lost our momentum on that one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Morrissey.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Do we have an idea which witnesses are still to appear before the committee on this particular study? Then we could know when we could schedule wrapping up hearing testimony.

The one area that we did not hear about, to any extent from the department, was on the whole question of legality and how the department interpreted Marshall, and what areas require additional clarification. We heard a lot on resource and impact, but we did not hear a lot on the legal aspects and interpretations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

Nancy, perhaps you can answer Mr. Morrissey to some degree on the number of witnesses left.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Certainly. To start, just a minute ago I just sent to all the P9s—all of your personal emails—the list of witnesses who have appeared, who were invited, and who have declined.

The vast majority of the witnesses were invited during that time. I will say that some of them had not yet been invited. They are the ones who usually require longer notice.

Overall, the witnesses who require more than a few days' notice have not yet been invited.

Perhaps I should give you a few minutes to look over the list.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I did not receive that list in my P9 yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. While we're waiting for that list to arrive in everybody's P9, Mr. Battiste, you had your hand up.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes. I think we've done a full study on this. We've heard from fisheries associations. We've heard from a lot of different people. I think we've heard what we need to hear to make recommendations. The only voice we haven't heard—I don't know if we've reached out to him—is Chief Sack's. He's been at the heart of this matter. I'm wondering if we've reached out to him; how many times that's been and whether he's just choosing not to testify before the committee; or if it's something else.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Again, I'll let Nancy answer. It's my understanding that he has been invited a couple of times at least, but has—up to this point—refused. Is that correct, Nancy?

[The Clerk]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

First, I would remind committee members that, in some cases, the discussions around specific witnesses take place in camera. Currently, the committee is in public, and the meeting is being televised. If the members still wish to discuss it, I can certainly answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. I see Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to move that we conclude the study. I see that people disagree, but the first members who spoke were in agreement on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thanks.

Looking at the list, I would say that we've exhausted the list of people who have come or aren't coming and don't want to testify. I think we should wrap it up and get back to the salmon study so we can finish that. Ms. Gill has a study that she's been waiting for, and I think the respectful thing to do would be to make sure that we take a look at doing that following this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

Mr. Williamson, do you have your hand up?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I don't, but please put me in line.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

We'll go on to Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

To put it out there for friends on the call tonight, I want to hear more about salmon also. On what we're doing in terms of studies right now, I think we can also hear more.

I also want to put it out there that I proposed a study about the North Atlantic right whale issue, which has been going on for the last four years in the gulf. Everybody voted in favour of that.

I think it will be very difficult to do something before Christmas, but I want to put it out there that maybe in the beginning of the new year, we can start that. The fishing season will start in April. There are a lot of things that we can hear from fishermen, businesses and communities. It has been difficult for the last four years. The government put good measures in place at the time they were needed to be put. Things have evolved since 2017. I think there's more we can do in terms of making sure that it's easier for fishermen to have a normal, less-stressful season, and at the same time, protecting the North Atlantic right whale. We can think about this.

To put it in perspective, I think the measure was good. There were zero mortalities this year from fishermen. I think we can improve those measures so that the fishing zones are open a little bit more for the season and that there's less stress on fishermen. If you have heard about what they've been going through in the last season, you know it's not easy. It's not easy for communities and fishermen around the world who are also working in this situation. I want to put it out there. I hope we can start this early next year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through you, I would ask if the clerk could send the lists that she sent to the P9 account to the staff as well. They need to be in on this.

In relation to future business, I'd like to remind everyone that we have some motions that were actually passed in the previous session of this Parliament that came back once we resumed. Those were already on the docket previously, so let's not start sliding things ahead of what we'd already set out in the previous session.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Yes, thank you.

I'll make the case for a few more meetings. I would be very interested in hearing some folks address the Marshall decision specifically. What I found, in particular, both from committee members and certainly the public at large, was a lot of discussion on how the environment has changed. That might be valid, but I think this committee needs to look at what the Marshall decision said and did not say, from legal scholars or lawyers, or perhaps even people who argued the case or those who have experience in that area of the law.

As well, I would very much like to hear from a few folks from DFO who have been all over the airwaves in Atlantic Canada. I'm speaking in particular of Dr. Dadswell, who has been doing multiple interviews. He was at DFO in lobster research in the seventies and eighties. He continues to be in that field. He's been telling the public some very interesting things that I think need to be put before this committee. That's just a sample of witnesses we need to hear from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

In light of what Mr. Williamson just said, I'm prepared to be a little bit more flexible. I don't know how many more people need to come and tell us what we already know as committee members, but if there are some other tidbits that can be gleaned, I would be in favour of that.

I was going to propose, Mr. Chair, that if there are a few witnesses left that Mr. Williamson or others would like to hear from, we can leave that possibility open if they're available. I would suggest that at a meeting next week, after we've had a chance to meet ourselves, we come back and provide drafting instructions to the analysts. Then we proceed afterwards to resuming the study on salmon and see if we can get that off the books.

If we do need one or maybe two more meetings on this, it's easy to add the testimony while we're already working on a report. There's no reason that we can't be flexible enough if we need to take an hour to hear from some witnesses at some point in time.

I don't think we need to do a hard stop, but I think we should do a soft stop right now, proceed with the drafting instructions and get to work on the salmon study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

Mr. Bragdon.