Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I’ll probably have a chance to ask more questions later, but I’m more interested in the technical side on the first round.

Mr. Burns, when a fishery closes and then reopens, no matter how many years later, is the catch history of the various fleets still considered when it reopens, in most cases?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, that generally is the case. Certainly, for the redfish opening in Unit 1, it’s really the first time in recent history that we’ve opened a fishery of this magnitude. So it’s hard to talk about precedents in particular, but, yes, when we reopen a fishery, we use its catch history.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As part of the new fishing quota allocation, they considered who had a catch history when the fishery closed. Despite that, fishing quotas were still allocated to other fleets or groups, such as the offshore fleet or the shrimp fleet, which had no catch history.

Is this correct?

[Adam Burns]

That’s right.

The redfish fishery was closed for about 30 years. So there were no fishermen with an economic dependence on the redfish fishery in Unit 1. The Minister therefore took the opportunity to further the government’s objectives.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

When did the first consultations on reopening the redfish fishery begin?

I think the shrimpers have repeatedly told you that they need an allocation that’s sufficient to get them through the crisis they’re experiencing in the shrimp fishery. During these consultations, did they tell you that they needed a specific percentage? Did they say they needed a 10% allocation, or a 50% one?

[Adam Burns]

I don’t have that specific information on hand, but Mr. Sylvain Vézina might.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right.

Mr. Vézina, could you briefly tell us if the shrimpers gave you any figures as to the amount of money they needed to get past the difficulties their industry was experiencing?

[Sylvain Vézina, Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

No, they didn’t mention any figures. As you reminded us, they told us they wanted an allocation to get them through the current crisis, but no specific quota was mentioned by the shrimpers.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right.

In terms of the basic quota of 25,000 tonnes that the minister announced recently, your scientists have said quite clearly that this number could increase substantially. If I’ve understood correctly, we’re talking about a total of 80,000 tonnes, or even over 300,000 tonnes.

Is that correct?

[Dr. Bernard Vigneault, Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Yes, that is correct.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

If the total allowable catch, or TAC, is increased from 25,000 to 80,000 tonnes, and then to 250,000 tonnes, the share allocated to shrimpers and other fleets could increase. We know quite well that shrimp trawlers are currently one of our fleets with the highest needs.

Despite the initial TAC allocation and supplementary allocations, could the Minister say that one fleet is at greater risk than another and that, as a result, she has decided to increase that fleet’s share of the supplementary TAC a little more, given the challenges it faces?

As you said earlier, the new Fisheries Act that we passed grants the minister the power to take these measures. Might she decide to do so?

[Adam Burns]

The Fisheries Act gives the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard the discretionary power to decide on allocations.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Very well.

Mr. Vigneault, I’d like to come back to the shrimp industry. When testifying before us in 2022 on this subject, department officials stated that redfish ate over 200,000 tonnes of shrimp a year, but that only 55,000 tonnes of shrimp remained. Wasn’t this imbalance noticed?

The decline in shrimp stocks was blamed on climate change, which causes warmer waters, for instance. This is certainly a factor to consider, but why was the redfish population allowed to explode to such proportions? Why wasn’t a decision made sooner to avoid such a devastating effect on the biomass and the shrimp industry?

[Dr. Bernard Vigneault]

Thank you for the question.

The nuance is that we don’t have an estimate of the total quantity of shrimp present in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. We use an indicator whose variations we track over time.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right, but according to this indicator, there were 55,000 tonnes of shrimp in the Gulf of St. Lawrence at the time, and redfish were eating 200,000 tonnes. Something was wrong. Math wasn’t my strong suit at school, but that’s easy to understand.

[Dr. Bernard Vigneault]

There is no direct link to estimate the total number of shrimp available in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Another important point is—

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

If there is no available indicator—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Quebec’s shrimp fishermen were out in force last Tuesday. They expressed not only their dismay, but also their resentment and bitterness after many years of reporting the exploding redfish population and issuing reminders that this fish preys on shrimp. Although these fishers focused their economic activity on a single species, namely shrimp, I would point out that there was a plentiful supply at the time and that this had always been the case. In fact, those working in the field are able to observe things that are not always apparent in real time in government offices. So they were sounding the alarm.

I think what made them so bitter last week was that they had repeatedly said that the redfish fishery had to be reopened quickly before a critical mass of shrimp disappeared. Indeed, the redfish fishery is one solution being considered by many scientists to at least bring the decline in shrimp biomass under control.

It is now the end of February. It’s just been announced that the redfish TAC will be set at 25,000 tonnes, along with a host of other measures, but fishermen are still waiting for the fishery to reopen and don’t want to invest for such a meagre quota, because there’s too much investment required, too much financial risk. Can you explain how we ended up in this situation?

I don’t know which of you is best suited to answer my question.

[Adam Burns]

Thank you very much for the question.

We’ve been consulting with industry for the past few years to inform our decisions on reopening the redfish fishery.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

You talk about the industry, but were Quebec fishermen given the opportunity to be heard?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, they were. Shrimpers, and the entire shrimp fleet, also have groundfish licenses.

There were many points of view in these discussions, including those of shrimpers, who wanted this fishery reopened quickly. Many others told us that we should take market development into account, and wait until redfish were larger so they could be processed into higher-value products. Several ideas were therefore expressed and taken into account. During the consultations, fishing remained prohibited.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I find it hard to understand that there were several opinions and that the department had to ponder them for several years. I understand that scientists from the Maurice Lamontagne Institute, among others, reported that the redfish biomass had gone back down. Yet this fish becomes cannibalistic to compensate for lack of food.

Can we acknowledge that we waited too long? Can we at least tell the fishers that we should have listened to them?

[Adam Burns]

I don’t know if there are any scientific explanations as to why the redfish haven’t reached their normal size or why their population is dropping.

Mr. Vigneault may have something to add.

[Dr. Bernard Vigneault]

We don’t really understand natural mortality and the decline we’re seeing now, given the absence of fishing. We began tracking individual growth in new cohorts in 2013.

Apart from the biomass we’ve measured over time, there are other factors. At the time, there was talk of having fish that were big enough to be made into fillets. Unfortunately, their growth stopped and it didn’t match expectations.