Evidence of meeting #100 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her question.
The people at headquarters are well aware of everything that’s going on and the problems affecting people in the shrimp industry in Quebec.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
So in your opinion, the decisions are sound.
Are the shrimpers happy?
4:30 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Shrimpers are certainly unhappy with the decision, I concur.
In the current context, our mandate as regulators is to ensure that fishing quotas are set, and so on. That said, the information has been conveyed.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Are you concerned that the fishers—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm sorry, Madame Desbiens, you have four seconds left, which is not enough time to ask a question, let alone get an answer.
We'll go on now to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Actually, I will let my colleague, Madame Desbiens, continue with her questions for my two and a half minutes this round.
Thank you.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I am most grateful to my colleague.
Mr. Vézina, are you concerned for Quebec’s fishers and shrimpers?
4:30 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mr. Chair, I thank the member for the question.
We're certainly concerned for Quebec fishers. The situation is not easy for them right now. On the other hand, there's no doubt—
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I don't have much time.
Are you making the case to the government, to headquarters specifically, that these shrimpers are going to need help?
4:30 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We certainly are.
We're providing information on the situation facing shrimpers in Quebec.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
They need an alternative.
We've been hearing about minimum quotas for a long time. Equipping a boat takes time and kicking off a fishing season alone is expensive. When you have to equip yourself for a new fishery, it's even more costly and complicated. Clearly, not just anyone in the business can get into redfish harvesting, given the quotas imposed on shrimpers in Quebec. That's dreaming in Technicolour.
What can you tell them about the future, in terms of ensuring predictability, to keep the economy going for the villages on the Gaspé Peninsula, for example? What can you tell them to give them hope?
4:30 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now, all we can do is try to open the fishery in spite of everything. We're working very hard to ensure that the next shrimp fishery opens.
The redfish advisory committee will be meeting next week. That's another avenue.
We're also working with our colleagues in the various departments to see what can be done, since we don't necessarily have a specific assistance program for the fisheries. We're trying to see what solutions are possible by working with the various organizations.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Who's going to take responsibility for the disappearance of villages because fishing is shutting down in the Gaspé?
A number of fishers are keeping their boats docked. Who's going to take responsibility for that? Aside from the issue of climate change, is anyone accountable for this situation?
4:35 p.m.
Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now, the important thing for us is to open the next fishing season and remain in constant contact with all the fishers.
We listen to what's going on and try to help them as much as we can with the tools we have at the moment. We'll continue to listen to fishers.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madame Desbiens. It's gone a little bit over.
We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll start with Mr. Burns.
Mr. Burns, ministers of the department you were the ADM for have stated repeatedly that they are the ultimate decision-makers for the ministry and the department. Would you agree with that?
4:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The Fisheries Act affords the minister the discretion related to fisheries management decisions.
February 27th, 2024 / 4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
In November 2015, the new Prime Minister released for cabinet ministers a guidance document titled “Open and Accountable Government” to set out “core principles” and directions regarding the roles and responsibilities of cabinet ministers and individual ministerial responsibilities, like accountability to Parliament. In that document, the Prime Minister stated, “Ministers should place a high priority on...supporting the essential work of [committees]. This includes appearing [at] committees whenever appropriate.”
Minister Lebouthillier has now been the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for over seven months and has attended the committee once, on October 26, 2023. In that same period, this committee—which the Prime Minister directed the minister to provide priority support to—has been visited by Deputy Minister Gibbons twice, Regional Director General Wentzell three times, and you, as assistant deputy minister, Mr. Burns, on five occasions.
The Prime Minister's guidance to ministers also clearly stated, “Public servants do not share in Ministers' constitutional accountability to Parliament”.
Since February 6, the minister has declined three requests from this committee for appearances, which we passed unanimously with all members' support. We believed it appropriate to hear from the minister herself, because she is supposed to be accountable to this committee and to the Canadians we represent. My office was informed that the minister's office provided the committee clerk with no reasons for the minister's refusal to attend the committee, as we unanimously requested her to on February 6, February 8 and February 13 of this year.
I don't wish to be inhospitable to the officials before us today, but I suspect that in fact you might be thinking the same thing that I am, the same thing the Prime Minister's 2015 guidance stated: “Public servants do not share [the Minister's] accountability to Parliament”.
Every day, our offices hear from Canadian harvesters worried about their livelihoods in coastal communities: Canadians who depend on marine resources like fisheries, Canadians pushed to anger because they are ignored by the minister, as they were by her predecessors—five predecessors, in fact. The whole point of Parliament is democracy, and it should be the opposite of tyranny. I'm starting to wonder what we call a government that tramples on the livelihoods and the communities of the people it is supposed to represent and work for. How can this committee support better decisions and policies from the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans when she won't even show up?
I know that there are fires burning in the minister's portfolio that she was assigned to, but ignoring affected Canadians and their elected representatives only makes things worse. It seems that the minister is trying to evade failures of her ministry by trying to evade accountability and evade the elected representatives of this committee, who do in fact have valuable points to contribute towards solutions.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here and commend you on your unending commitment to being deployed time and time again as human shields for ministers who simply refuse to fulfill their constitutional accountability to Parliament.
Mr. Burns, I was astonished earlier when I heard you say in response to a question about what quota numbers had been requested by the harvesters.... This meeting and study are specifically on redfish allocation and quotas, and you stated that you weren't able to provide that to the committee. You came to this meeting knowing that it was what was going to be discussed. How do you explain not having those answers?
4:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
My colleague Sylvain Vézina indicated that indeed a specific quantum hadn't been identified by that fleet.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Okay, I have one question: When will it? When will it be set?
4:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, next week, we'll be consulting with the redfish advisory committee to inform the suballocation decisions, the minister's decisions related to the overall quotas...the allocation key has been taken and was informed by consultations that have taken place since 2021.