Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. That's a little bit over time.

We'll go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If we're going to want to argue about the number of times the Minister of Fisheries or other Liberals in that position have appeared before the committee, I would remind you that the former minister of fisheries Gail Shea hardly attended any committee meetings. We're here to find solutions.

I would like to address Mr. Burns or another official from the department.

One of the major concerns of fishers, shrimpers or inshore fleets is the return of large vessels to the Gulf. I think you know that in 1977, Roméo LeBlanc, who was the minister of fisheries at the time, prohibited the presence of vessels over 100 feet long in the Gulf.

How many large Canadian vessels over 100 feet long are capable of harvesting redfish in the Gulf of St. Lawrence?

[Todd Williams]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the question.

We currently don't have a policy that prevents large vessels over 100 feet from fishing in the gulf. We do know that there are nine offshore licence-holders.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do they own boats over 100 feet, yes or no?

[Todd Williams]

I would imagine, yes.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

How many?

[Todd Williams]

I don't have the number on hand. We can certainly provide that.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay. Perfect.

We just opened a fishery that was closed for 30 years. I think we almost all agree that this fishery closed, in big part, because of this big vessel that was catching a major amount of fish. Are we agreed on that?

[Adam Burns]

I think the evidence related to the decline of the gulf redfish fishery is actually related to a variety of factors at the time in the 1990s.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

However, they contributed, didn't they?

[Adam Burns]

Colleagues, do you have that science information...?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We're here for answers.

Look, let me rephrase it this way. We've been talking for years about a sustainable fishery, a fishery that would respect the communities more, that would benefit communities; and we're seeing that we're going to allow big boats again in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, something that the minister back then, in 1997.... Former minister Roméo LeBlanc said no more big boats in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Don't you think that with our objective of having a more sustainable fishery—you said it in your speech, we want to have more opportunity for inshore fishers—we should look very carefully at that and not allow those big boats to come into the Gulf of St. Lawrence, so we don't have another decline of this fishery for years to come?

[Adam Burns]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

Certainly the minister has addressed the issues related to the greater than 100-foot vessels and indicated that, from a conservation perspective, any risk of conservation concerns to the fishery will be managed as a result of the fishery being managed through a TAC and fleet shares that will be monitored.

She's also indicated that there is not currently a policy in the department related to these vessels fishing in the Gulf of St. Lawrence—

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay, Mr. Burns.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but when Mr. LeBlanc made the decision in 1977 not to allow the big vessels in the Gulf, was there a policy at that time, or did he put a policy in place himself as minister?

[Adam Burns]

What I can tell you is there is no policy in place at this time.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay.

Could the minister prohibit large vessels over 100 feet from entering the Gulf?

[Adam Burns]

What she's indicated is that her focus is on where the economic benefits are going. She has indicated that as long as there are local crew onboard the vessels and that the vessels are contributing to coastal communities, that's her focus in terms of the fishery.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The shrimpers are the ones most affected right now, because their resource is almost depleted. We're heading towards a moratorium on shrimp.

Apart from the redfish fishing quotas that were recently allocated, are you already considering other types of assistance that could be offered to shrimpers?

[Adam Burns]

The department has been engaged with other government departments to ensure that the full suite of available Government of Canada supports is available to this fleet to help in their transition. Certainly we're working diligently to ensure that's the case.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Vigneault, I'd like to briefly—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Your five minutes is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Bragdon for five minutes or less, please.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing today. I appreciate your taking the time and coming.

I know it has been referenced, but we must reference yet again that there is someone missing at this table today who should be here. That is the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, who should be answering at this time of crisis to many who have been affected by the dwindling shrimp stocks. Their livelihoods are at risk.

This has been identified as an area of potential revenue generation for those who have been affected, as well as others who perhaps are in the coastal communities and are being affected as well. Throughout the region, it affects no less than five provinces directly.

I would like to know and get a sense of this from you today. Whereas we know that the most valuable stakeholders—and I believe where some of the most valuable input can come from—are those whose livelihoods depend most upon the fishery. There are no greater protectors and stewards of the future stocks in our oceans off our coast here in Canada than those whose very communities and the livelihoods of generations of families have depended upon the fruits of the sea for their livelihood.

I think the input, if I'm not mistaken, that's been coming from the harvesters and those coastal communities has been pretty overwhelming as it relates to opening up the fishery and expanding the amount of quota that can be given as it relates to redfish. I think what they're saying is, “Let's get on with it, and let's make this expansive and meaningful”, so that it can become a way of helping them make ends meet at the end of the day.

How much consultation has the minister herself done with the harvesters and the coastal communities in a meaningful way, and how much has she listened to the provincial ministers of fisheries, who are very close to the situation and are certainly aware of the challenges they are facing? Can you provide us a little bit of insight on that, Mr. Burns?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have a specific line of sight on the minister's day-to-day schedule, but I can say that I am certainly aware of a number of meetings that she has had in which redfish allocations have been part of the discussion.

In addition to that, the department has undertaken very robust and detailed consultations over a number of years. All of that input and those views have also been provided to the minister and have helped inform her decisions.

I will note that certainly the minister has so far not taken a decision on the total allowable catch. She has indicated that 25,000 tonnes is the absolute minimum she will entertain, and next week she will be consulting with industry on an appropriate TAC.

Redfish is an interesting species in that it has episodic recruitment, so it's not a regular cycle of new fish coming into the fishable biomass. Therefore, you have to manage it in a way that spreads out the harvest, because when you take fish out this year, they won't be there next year, and won't be replaced instantly through the regular recruitment that we see among a lot of other species.

Part of that needs to be taken into account as we make plans for the management of this fishery so that market development can occur in the context of the projected duration of this pulse of biomass, which is a decade or less. We need to consult with industry to understand their market development plans and the pace they would like to see the TAC grow over the coming years so that they can extract the maximum value out of this fishery as well to the benefit of those coastal communities.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Burns.

Just to follow up on that, I think you could perhaps provide some clarity. Could you summarize the input you're getting from the harvesters who are closest to it as to what they feel the quota should be? What is the input and what are you hearing in regard to that at this point?

I'm sure it's a much greater level than perhaps what we're hearing reported so far as the minimum. Can you give this committee an idea of what they're recommending, the harvesters themselves, those who could be impacted by this?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly to date we haven't had specific consultations on that. That is scheduled for next week. I am well aware of the views that have been expressed through—