Fisheries Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm not sure if there is science to your very precise question, but certainly there would be science on the—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

One would think that specific science would be done, in any area where you're looking at doing this, that shows there's a decline of something that needs to be protected.

Area 2 here is the eastern shore. That has a lobster fishing area, LFA 32, with only a two-month season of April to June. Your documents publicly say that eelgrass beds and kelp seaweed, which are also not endangered, need to be protected, and that there's salmon habitat there. There's no salmon habitat there. Most of the eastern shore rivers have been killed by acid rain. Very little salmon goes up any rivers there. There's a few that will go up St. Mary's River, but there's very few and they breed in the river.

Would you provide the science on what is being protected, what's in decline and whether or not it was mankind doing that for this area?

[Annette Gibbons]

We'll provide what we have.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay.

I'll go to number three, Georges Bank, the richest fishing ground in Atlantic Canada. It is incredibly important to both Canadians and Americans. You're proposing again that it be closed in a marine protected area. Could you provide the committee with the specific science showing that the things you're trying to protect are actually in decline over a period of time for that area?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's a yes...? It's the same for Sambro, up here in my riding. It's an important lobster fishing area. You've designated it to be closed. Will you provide the science for that?

[Annette Gibbons]

We'll provide the science we have available. Absolutely.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have all of these. I'll cobble together all of the blue and the red areas. Will you provide what's specifically in decline and the science behind all of it for this committee?

[Annette Gibbons]

I will provide, as I said, the science that we have available. I'm not able to commit to new scientific work, but the science we have we'll provide to you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

I'll turn the rest of my time over to Mr. Bragdon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 45 seconds, Mr. Bragdon.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I have a quick question for the minister.

Thank you for being here.

The Great Lakes Fishery Commission stated that DFO was in clear conflict of interest by acting as the Great Lakes fishery.

We unanimously recommended in our report that the GLFC as a contractor be moved over to Global Affairs, that you ensure that it receive its full funding and that DFO not try to withhold it.

Are you going to follow the recommendations of this committee, which were very clear in what they recommended and which we received directly from the stakeholders involved? A letter was sent to the Prime Minister from 25 U.S. congressmen. It's on his desk now. Have you spoken to the Prime Minister about this, and is it being dealt with?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I assure you that we're not in a conflict right now. I even met with the U.S. ambassador, who was pleased to see the investments that had been made. We continue to work together on the Great Lakes.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Have you followed the recommendations of the committee, and have you spoken to the Prime Minister?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Bragdon, you have gone way over your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Kelloway for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be splitting my time with MP Morrissey.

I really didn't know that we could bring in charts. I have put together a little makeshift chart of my own. I'm not an artist and certainly not a scientist, but I'll get to that in a minute.

We talked about small craft harbours and the importance of small craft harbours. They're, in essence, the hub of a community economically, socially and culturally. How many Conservatives are going to vote for the $463 million in the budget, to invest that money over three years? I can probably answer that question. It's zero.

There's my chart.

I want to go back to a really important item in relation to my neck of the woods. I think this would apply to a lot of coastal areas. The temperature of the gulf in the last 15 years, I believe, has increased by two degrees. Right now this is having a tremendous impact on coastal communities, fishers and the economy writ large.

The previous government had a different stance on science, and they did reduce their budgets on science and whatnot. How much do you think that's put us back in terms of having the science to be able to protect the ecosystem?

I'll hand it off to Mr. Morrissey after this.

Thank you.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you very much for those questions.

If the Conservative Party and the Bloc Québécois don't want to vote for the budget allocated to small craft harbours, they might not be so important to them. For us, however, they're very important, because there's an entire economy linked to them.

In addition, there's important scientific work to be done on the warming of the Gulf of St. Lawrence. We've noted a great deal of concern within the fishing industry. This winter, there was no ice in the gulf and the fishery started much earlier. There's also a drop in oxygen in the gulf waters, and that's hurting forage species such as capelin, smelt, herring and mackerel, which feed other species.

That's why I think it's important to really depoliticize the fishery. We all need to work together to protect the fisheries of the future. That's also why it's important to have marine parks and marine protected areas. They are our nurseries. They will allow the species to reproduce, and that's how we'll be able to sustain the fisheries. Who would think of going fishing in their nursery? My goal is not to kill fisheries. No one wakes up in the morning wondering what they can do to make life unbearable for our fishers. That would make life unbearable for us, the people who live in the fishery. So everybody has to work together to make sure that we have a sustainable fishery.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I'm going to hand it over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Morrissey, you have just short of two and a half minutes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Madam Minister, I'll follow up on some of your earlier answers. By the way, I support your decision of allowing a limited mackerel bait fishery this spring.

Could you explain to the committee the importance, as you see it, of having input from and the perspective of commercial fishers on how they view stocks, when you are faced with making decisions...that the department provide you with data and you have to make the ultimate decision? What's the importance of having the perspective of commercial fishers?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Yes.

That's why it's important to me to consult and meet with the associations. Fishers knew there was a moratorium on the mackerel fishery in Canada, but mackerel was still being fished on the U.S. side, so they couldn't understand.

It's important to listen so we get it right. Fishers told us that they were seeing schools of mackerel. They see what's going on, hence the importance of focusing more on a bait fishery. It's not worth it to fishers to go further to catch mackerel when they only get $1.79 a pound. We know that bait is important for lobster and crab pots, so we enable fishers to work better.

There's also the whole issue of affordability. When bait costs more, the price of the product goes up, and fewer consumers can afford it.

We are working with the community. I can tell you that the associations are actually pleased with the decision that was made.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I want to set the record straight. In 2017, your government wanted to sell 25 ports in eastern Quebec and many more in the rest of Canada. Now you're saying your government wants to help small craft harbours, but that is not true. You know very well that the Government of Quebec is required to buy back four ports in eastern Quebec, the ones in Gros-Cacouna, Rimouski, Matane and Gaspé.

Why don't you come to my riding, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques? The quay at the west jetty in Rimouski has been closed since 2015 because the federal government is ignoring it and failing to put up the cash or maintain it. Do you know what's going to happen to that quay? It's going to be filled in with rocks. A quay was built and, now that the feds are no longer supporting it, it's going to be filled in with rocks. You're telling me that looking after quays is one of your government's priorities, but when something is a priority, you don't just get rid of it for a dollar. Those are the facts I want the committee to know.

Ms. Gibbons, on behalf of your department, when did you first recommend lifting the moratorium and reopening the redfish fishery?

[Annette Gibbons]

Are you asking me the date?