Fisheries Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Cormier, thank you so much for that question.

I see small craft harbours as a priority. We know that they're bearing the brunt of climate change, and after Hurricane Fiona, we saw just how hard climate change could hit. We know that there will be more storms, that they will be more intense and that sea levels are rising.

Small craft harbours are also becoming industrial parks. There's a whole economy around small craft harbours. These harbours need dredging, and the cost of that has gone through the roof. Some small craft harbours require two to three dredgings per fishing season because fishers must be able to fish safely.

We also need to help the industries that support fishers. Think of electronic equipment on boats and people who can help fishers with their boats. In our rural regions, the entire economy revolves around the fishing industry, so it's important to work with the fishers and the harbour associations, which are very dedicated. We have to do even better and even more when it comes to investing in small craft harbours so that this economy can flourish.

For me, fisheries are important not only for food security, but also for the economy. The direct and indirect spinoffs from the fishery are work, employment and skilled trades now too. There's a whole economy around fisheries.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

I think that in 2017 and 2019, the fishers in my area saw how more funding produces more projects. So the funding announced in the budget will help us do more.

You were asked about the seals, and I know how important that is to you. We know that the seals are causing an imbalance in the ecosystem and something has to be done about that. Based on recent reports, we need to find solutions to reduce the seal population. However, if we wanted all the fisher associations to sign a letter asking that the seals simply be culled, none of them would want to sign it.

However, as you know, we now risk losing some of our major markets. I know that you're working on it and you've discussed it at length. Can you update the committee on the status of this? I think we need to act quickly to keep from losing our resources.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

A lot of work has been done with indigenous communities so that they can take the lead on initiatives related to the seal economy. For me, it's not just about slaughtering seals. It's also about processing seals and creating added value.

In the fisheries sector, I think it will be important to use artificial intelligence and the Mer numérique AI tool. We need to be able to get more evidence and predict what's happening underwater. That's being developed right now.

The Fonds des pêches du Québec is very much appreciated in the sector. We're working on improving it so that it uses all the latest technologies, enables development and brings us even more scientific data.

We were talking earlier about quotas and bycatch. We must have all the tools at our disposal to ensure sound management of the harvest. As I mentioned, fish feed on fish. If we want to sustain the fisheries of the future, we have to let the species feed. We need an environmentally responsible harvest.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll go to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, according to the current distribution of the redfish quota, 60% of the quota goes to offshore fishers, which favours large companies at the expense of small fishing fleets like shrimpers, who have been abandoned, small fishers and owner-operators, who could have used this support. Would you agree?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I would remind you that 10% of the redfish quota has been allocated to inshore fishers and shrimpers, as well as indigenous communities. As I mentioned, this is a quota fishery, which ends as soon as fishers catch the quota to which they're entitled. This fishery employs people in the plants, people on land and people in the processing plants along the coast.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

It mainly puts the employees of big companies to work. You said you didn't want to encourage the slipper skipper system. However, small fishers are going to have to work for big companies if you give 60% of the redfish quota to offshore vessels greater than 100 feet. You know it's true.

Are you the member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine to support the economy and fishers, or are you the member for big business?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Offshore fishers were given smaller quotas so that inshore fishers could catch more. Our inshore fishers will be able to work. That said, the people on the offshore vessels are also workers in our communities. The most important thing is developing the economy in the communities, and that's what we'll continue to do for all the regions.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

You're confirming that you favour big companies at the expense of small fishers and small fleets.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

If that's your understanding, it's because there's a distortion between what I'm saying and what you understand. We were asked to preserve the quotas in Quebec, and that's what we did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, the Gitanyow First Nation in British Columbia has been at the forefront of efforts in the region to secure a vibrant wild salmon future for the benefit of all. They're currently awaiting DFO approval for two initiatives. On one, they've spent years negotiating a term sheet with DFO for a DFO fisheries reconciliation agreement. On the other one, they're awaiting funding for a conservation hatchery. Both of these initiatives have been supported by the regional director general, but department approval has yet to come through. Minister, why is there a holdup, and when should the nation expect final approval?

[Annette Gibbons]

We have been negotiating with the Gitanyow for some time now and we expect to be in a position to advance in those negotiations very shortly.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Gibbons.

Minister, DFO's ghost gear fund ended on March 31, as you know, and groups who rely on this funding are extremely worried about the fact that no new funding has been allocated in budget 2024. Can you clarify? Has any new funding been allocated and, if not, when will it be?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The Ghost Gear Fund has been important. Work has been done, but right now, we need to analyze what happened and then see how we can improve how we work in the future and how we can create a circular economy around ghost gear by adding value to what we recover on the ocean floor. We're giving ourselves a certain amount of time to do an assessment. It's part of the work to be done in the next steps.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Every time I think my French is good enough to understand, I realize it's not.

Is the funding cut? Will we see funding? Just to clarify, will we see funding being allocated to the ghost gear fund?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

It's too early to tell, but we're working on the next steps. That's why it's important that we analyze the results. We have to look at what happened, what was created and how we can continue to do things even better.

We also need to look at how we can involve people from the fisheries sector, including fishers, and establish everyone's responsibilities. In some parts of my riding, which I'm perhaps a little more familiar with, I'm told that 8,000 lobster traps have been recovered. If 8,000 lobster traps were recovered in just one area of my riding, imagine what could be recovered where there's a lot more lobster fishing, like in Nova Scotia. The numbers would increase exponentially.

It's a matter of figuring out how to involve fishers and public funds, how to create a circular economy and how to educate people even better to protect the seabed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

That brings us up to the 10-minute break that the minister requested. That gives 55 minutes on the dot in committee business in public, in camera, whichever way you want to look at it.

We'll allow the minister a 10-minute break, and we'll reconvene again at 4:40.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting back to order.

We'll start our second round with Mr. Perkins for six minutes. I think he indicated that he may be sharing his time, but I'll leave that up to him.

Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming for two hours today. We appreciate it.

On April 29, DFO began a two-month public consultation on proposed new marine protected areas in principally Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. I have a couple of questions about some of those.

This is just so people know what I'm talking about, because not everyone knows the geography. I'd like to ask you first about Browns Bank, which is the area on the southern tip of Nova Scotia. That is located as an area of interest in your consultation. It's lobster fishing areas 34 and 40 and also scallop fishing areas 29 C and D. There are other fisheries in there. It's an important fishery for Clearwater, which is owned by Membertou, who fish lobster, scallops and surf clam down there.

Now, as you look at your pictures, the fishing companies tell me that 90% of the bottom there is mud, but you claim to be protecting something called Gorgonian coral in the proposal. That's the coral that people see in fish tanks. It's not something that's endangered. You say there's a dense concentration of sponges. Sponges are also not endangered.

I wonder if DFO would provide the committee with the science that shows that those things you're trying to protect there are actually in decline in that area.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

These are marine protected areas. What's important is all the concerted and collaborative work with the sectors and with users in the sectors. As I mentioned, the goal is to get it right. We also need to look at the impacts, and we need to have science to protect the fisheries of the future. That work needs to be done with fishers' associations and organizations, all together.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Minister, I appreciate that, but that wasn't my question. My question was that this is an area of interest, which is the next step shortly to being a marine protected area. All the marine protected areas that DFO has designated so far in Nova Scotia are no-take zones where you can't fish. Will you provide the committee with the science of what's in decline in this area and the proof that it is interaction with mankind that's causing that decline in order for this to be protected?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm happy to provide the science. MPA zones obviously are very much based on the science around what is sensitive in a zone, and—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I appreciate that. So you do have science that proves that these things are in decline.