Evidence of meeting #120 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stock.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Adam Burns  Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Bernard Vigneault  Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
William McGillivray  Regional Director General, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 120 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed I will make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Please address all comments through the chair.

Before we hear from witnesses, I would like the committee to adopt the budget in the amount of $96,150 for the Fisheries Act statutory review. Keep in mind that we have eight meetings on that study and that a lot of people have demonstrated their interest in appearing. The travel amount for the witnesses is appropriate.

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you for that.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on September 16, the committee is commencing its study on the impact of the reopening of the cod fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec.

Welcome to our witnesses. From the Department of Fisheries we have Adam Burns, assistant deputy minister, programs sector; on Zoom we have William McGillivray, regional director general, Newfoundland and Labrador region; and Bernard Vigneault, director general, ecosystem sciences directorate. Thank you for taking the time to appear today. You will have five minutes or less for your opening statement.

Mr. Burns, you have the floor.

Adam Burns Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning, everyone. My colleagues and I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee.

I begin by acknowledging that the land on which we are gathered today is the traditional territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe people. Through generations, indigenous peoples have been stewards of the land and the water.

Today, we're happy to be here discussing the reopening of the northern cod fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador.

It is essential that we begin by emphasizing the importance of northern cod to Newfoundland and Labrador's economy and culture. The species is woven into the province's history and traditions.

Prior to the moratorium in 1992, the groundfish fishery dominated the industry in Newfoundland and Labrador. At that time in the province there were close to 24,000 registered fish harvesters as well as a significant offshore component, with landings of northern cod in the range of 500,000 tonnes and a landed value of about $300 million.

The moratorium on the northern cod fishery has had a profound impact on all aspects of life in the province, particularly in coastal communities.

Over the years the department collaborated with industry on various initiatives, including sentinel surveys and the establishment of the stewardship fishery in 2006, in conjunction with the Fish, Food and Allied Workers-Unifor. The stewardship fishery fostered a culture of stewardship among harvesters, contributed valuable data for stock assessments and enhanced our understanding of the resource status of northern cod.

In October 2023, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans held a meeting of the Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat to review the northern cod assessment model.

In this meeting, consensus was reached on significant improvements to the northern cod assessment model. Using this updated model, the stock was considered to be in the cautious zone of the precautionary framework. Recognizing the change in the stock status and its potential impact on management approaches, the department convened a special session of the groundfish advisory committee to discuss access and allocation for a potential reopening of the northern cod commercial fishery. This session included participation by the Newfoundland and Labrador government, harvesting and processing representatives, indigenous partners and non-governmental organizations.

In March 2024, a full stock assessment confirmed that the northern cod stock remained in the cautious zone.

Following the stock assessment, we reconvened the groundfish advisory committee to gather perspectives on the 2024 northern cod management approach. While northern cod has a unique legacy, it is subject to the department's robust consultation process before any management decisions are made.

The 2024 management approach for northern cod is cautious yet optimistic. It provides for a modest increase, from the roughly 13,000-tonne stewardship fishery, to an 18,000-tonne commercial fishery in the current management plan. The decision to provide a majority allocation of over 90% of the TAC to the inshore sector and indigenous groups reflects a commitment to those who have long been the custodians of the ocean. It also recognizes the Canadian offshore fleet's historical role in this fishery, with the majority of its northern cod allocation held by Newfoundland and Labrador interests. Their allocation supports operations that employ hundreds in coastal communities and helps to establish a consistent year-round supply of cod.

It is important to note that northern cod is a straddling fish stock, a portion of which is present in international waters. As a responsible fishing nation, the department is required to consider Canada's international obligations under the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization. Canada must co-operate with other countries on the sustainable management of relevant fish stocks through participation in regional fisheries management organizations. Canada has negotiated strong conservation measures to limit catches in the NAFO regulatory area outside the Canadian 200-nautical-mile limit. The department is a key contributor to comprehensive fisheries monitoring, control and surveillance programs in the NAFO regulatory area. There are specific rules to protect this stock, including strict small quotas, seasonal closure, gear requirements and minimum sizes. The limited NAFO allocation will be stringently monitored.

Lastly, the department's objective is to work with all its partners to support a modern and sustainable fishery through strong management measures and a shared desire to restore and sustainably manage this stock.

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Burns.

We now go to Mr. Small for six minutes, please.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today to take part in this important study.

Mr. Chair, my first question is to Mr. Burns. Mr. Burns, in 2015 Prime Minister Trudeau promised full access, for the first 115,000 metric tons of northern cod, to the inshore fleet. Is this a promise that he could keep?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

As I mentioned in my opening comments, over 90% of the available quota is—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Could he have kept that promise? Is that a legitimate promise to make, Mr. Burns?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

In taking her decision, the minister considered a number of factors—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

No, but would you consider it to be a legitimate promise, with your knowledge?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

The minister, in her announcement, made clear that her objective was for a year-round fishery.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

No, but was the promise that was made by the Prime Minister for the first 115,000 tonnes a legitimate promise? Was that a promise that could be kept, based on your knowledge of NAFO commitments and whatnot? Could he have kept that promise or was it a fake promise?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

The allocation decision is one that was taken by the minister, and as was stated in the—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

The big controversy here, and especially from the FFAW-Unifor point of view, is that the promise was made for the 115,000 metric tons. Was that a legitimate promise? Could he have kept that promise, or did he make a promise that he knew or should have known he couldn't keep?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

In her June 2024 announcement regarding her decisions related to the allocation of this year's quota, the minister laid out some specific socio-economic considerations, including the importance of a year-round supply of fish, which is something that requires a variety of fleets to participate in. Obviously, as you know, there's not the ability to fish in the winter months, for example, and so those considerations were the elements that informed the minister's decision.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

But still, could you answer that question? Is it possible that a promise of 115,000 metric tons to the inshore fleet could be kept?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

I can only speak to the decisions that were taken and the rationale they was based on.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Based on your knowledge—

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

Those decisions were based on a variety of factors, specifically the socio-economic—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

The question is, could he have kept that promise, yes or no?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Adam Burns

The decision was taken by the minister

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Could you say yes or no? Was it possible for that 115,000-tonne promise to be kept?

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

Chair, I have a point of order.

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Yes, go ahead, Mr. Morrissey.

Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE

The rules of the House are followed by this committee. The questioner is harassing the witness by asking him to respond to and making comments that the witness can clearly not address.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Mr. Bragdon, go ahead on that point of order.