Fisheries Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

The question was about the minister's statement that there were no rules. That's a quote. I wrote it down when she said it because I couldn't believe she said it. Was that a correct statement, that there were no rules?

[Adam Burns]

It is true that there were no rules related to the possession and traceability of elvers, which we believe are necessary in order to effectively manage this fishery.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Were there rules around licensing?

[Adam Burns]

Indeed. The fishery is a licensed fishery, and in those licences, there are several conditions of licence.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

So there were rules.

[Adam Burns]

There are rules that govern every fishery. What wasn't in place, and what we are working on putting in place now, are those measures related to possession and traceability.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Then the minister basically misled this committee by stating there were no rules.

[Adam Burns]

I don't have the exact quote in front of me—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I do.

[Adam Burns]

—but she would have been referring to the absence of rules related to possession and traceability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We'll now go to Mr. Weiler for five minutes or less, please.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I will turn my time over to Mr. Cormier, who I believe has at least a question to ask here.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

I just have one more question.

Mr. Burns, at DFO offices in my region in Atlantic Canada and elsewhere in Canada, fishermen can just go, call or knock on doors and sometimes have a meeting with officials. A woman who was working at a lower level in one of those offices called me. What she told me was very disturbing. She said that if I wanted to meet with her and get information on a particular project, or whatever I wanted, she needed to sign a document, ask if she could meet with me and then report back what was said in that meeting. I'm an elected official. She said she needs to sign a form and everything. My first comment to her was this: “Are we in Russia here or what?”

Does such a document exist? What she told me is that this doesn't come from a minister or a government decision. It comes from the higher deputy levels at 200 Kent Street. They need to sign a form that says which MP they met with and what the purpose of the meeting was, and then report that back to the deputy minister's office.

Does such a document exist, yes or no?

[Adam Burns]

The public service is a non-partisan institution, so there are reporting requirements when there are interactions with politicians. That's a reporting requirement so that the department and the minister are aware of those conversations. It's not a prohibition on those conversations.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Are you the only department in the government that is doing that?

[Adam Burns]

I'm not aware of that.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

I'm going to give my time back to Mr. Weiler now.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and answering our questions.

I want to touch on a program that actually is a big priority for British Columbians and something that I long advocated for along with many other MPs from British Columbia. That's the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, which, to my knowledge, is the largest recovery package for any species in Canadian history. This was announced in 2021, and there are several components of it.

I was hoping you might be able to give us an update on how this program is rolling out, particularly if you can give some metrics and statistics on things like areas of habitat restoration and some of the other outcomes that we can point to from this program.

[Niall O'Dea]

I would underline that there has been, thus far, a $201.5 million investment in targeted actions to address Pacific salmon declines under the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, and a good $90.9 million of that was delivered in partnership with others, which is a very important aspect of the program's work.

So far in fiscal year 2024-25, the department has spent $26 million, $11.1 million of which was, again, spent with partners. I'm happy to provide specific details of outcomes in writing, but some of the key activities that we have been engaged in include working to rebuild those key salmon stocks to support innovative indigenous harvesting practices; support licence retirements for commercial fish harvesters where that's required; address severe drought impacts where they are increasingly affecting Pacific salmon populations; and provide an ongoing response to the Chilcotin River landslide, which we know is having effects on upstream migration of chinook salmon.

I'm certainly happy to provide further detail on outcomes in writing.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

That would be much appreciated.

I want to pick up on that last point, because there was the landslide in the Chilcotin, and there was actually one in my riding at the Birkenhead River.

When we have one of these emergency situations that comes forward, how are we able to respond to that? Is there funding to direct to emergency responses that we know are going to become more and more frequent with a more variable climate?

[Niall O'Dea]

Certainly, we've seen those emergency situations arise at Big Bar and we've seen them in Chilcotin. I appreciate the reference you've just made to a further landslide. These are natural circumstances, but also ones that can be accelerated in the context of extreme weather events and climate change.

We work immediately with partners both in the province and in first nations and others to identify what response measures are required. There is no dedicated emergency response fund, but typically we will look to existing funding resources, including initiatives like the Pacific salmon initiative, that are focused on these matters to see what funding can be provided and where those needs exceed what the department is able to bear within its own mandates. We, of course, will chat with colleagues at the centre about what might further be required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you Mr. Weiler.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to come back to the issue of offshore vessels being allocated historic quota shares, while the fishing economy is dying in Quebec.

Of course, lobster fishing is doing well. Lobsters, like other species, are moving north, and we don't know how long that will last. I see a certain lethargy setting in when it comes to support for Quebec's inshore fisheries. Canada is not proactive.

There's a real problem. I said it earlier, and I repeated it to the minister. There have also been television reports on the matter. Fishers have other things to do than take part in TV reports. If they do, it's because they've reached that point.

How do you intend to support the inshore fisheries, be it the shrimp fishery or the pelagic fishery? How are you going to support these fisheries so that they continue to exist and there's a next generation with the necessary skills?

What are you going to do to prevent coastal villages from dying in Quebec? That's what your decisions are causing, whether or not they're your own decisions or those of the minister.

How can we stop this and start moving in the right direction?

Are you looking at solutions? If so, have you proposed them to the minister, and are they being considered?

[Adam Burns]

As you mentioned, some fishing sectors are doing well, such as lobster fishing. The minister has made some decisions in that regard, so we're in the process of setting up consultations on a few lobster fishing areas in Quebec.

The minister also granted access to licences to help shrimp fleets and the redfish fishery. She's allocated enough redfish licences to support fishers, although it probably doesn't help all fishers. She's working on that. She's very aware of the need to find other examples where her decisions can help fishers and the industry.

That said, climate change is changing the distribution and quantity of biomass. Decisions must continue to be made to respond to these changes in the environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.