Fisheries Committee on Oct. 28th, 2024

I can only speak from the experience of Cadboro Bay, where we have two municipalities, first nations with an interest in the bay, the province and the federal government with its many departments. For example, when we phone in to report a vessel on the beach, the first thing that happens is they ask, like I said before, “Are there any hydrocarbons leaking?”

If not and if we can make it to that boat, we discover, for example, that there is no number on it at all. There is no plaque in a porthole saying, “In case of emergency call”. The boat may have been tied up in the bay for months. We have no idea.

On the beach, the municipality of Saanich has put up signs that say, “In case of emergency”, and there is the Coast Guard emergency number. It falls between the cracks more times than not. When we first started in 2017—

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Dahli. We're going to have to end it here.

We'll go on now to Mr. Weiler for five minutes or less, please.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank our two witnesses for their testimony thus far and for being here.

I'll continue with the jurisdictional quagmire. I know Transport Canada will have a role if there's a navigation risk with mooring buoys and otherwise. Sometimes, DFO will have a role if it's in a small craft harbour. As Mr. Dahli was saying before, you have a number for the Coast Guard that you can call if there is an emergency situation. My experience has been, from hearing from constituents in my riding, that people are oftentimes waiting for weeks in those cases, and sometimes, those situations actually get much worse.

With that in mind, I have a question for Mr. Peart. You mentioned that, from your point of view, this is a system that was better regulated when the Coast Guard had the responsibility for it. I wonder why the Coast Guard is better suited for this, or if this might just be a matter of resourcing for Transport Canada.

Chair, Friends of Shoal Harbour Society

It seems to me that the Coast Guard is a logical place. First off, the Coast Guard has boats, so they can get on the water. Transport Canada, in a lot of cases, doesn't have boats. Certainly, out here, our experience is that it doesn't have access to boats. The Coast Guard has the ability to get on the water, and they're more local; they're regional. Prior to 2004, my understanding is that the system worked quite well. The Coast Guard seems logical to us, because, again, it's within DFO, so there's more of a direct relationship and it just seems like a logical body for us.

I suppose it could be done by Transport Canada. It would have to be resourced much better than it was, and it would also have to enforce, which it hasn't. It would need clarification around what abandoned boats are, and we'd need a clearer definition around abandoned and derelict, as well.

It could be done by Transport Canada, but I think it's cleaner to have it sit with the Coast Guard.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

The next question is for Mr. Dahli.

A situation that I find often plays itself out is that you have a boat owner who wants to get rid of a boat because it's getting to the point where it's falling apart, and you typically find a vulnerable Canadian who, oftentimes, is living with housing insecurity. This person ends up becoming a live-aboard, and they don't actually end up registering the boat. Then you have someone living in an unsafe situation with no way of actually tracking this.

I, unfortunately, see this set of circumstances play out over and over, and I'm wondering, from your point of view, what the best way is to approach this type of a circumstance.

Chair, Cadboro Bay Dead Boats Society

If, and when, we get our licence of occupation in Cadboro Bay, then the moorage field will be under control. In order to moor in the moorage field, you will need to have insurance and you will need to have a holding tank. By the way, the Royal Victoria Yacht Club has agreed to manage the licence of occupation in Cadboro Bay. When the people come in and sign in, their boat will be checked.

We also want to have, as part of this, a wellness check so that every so many days, if someone's time has expired and they're going to leave the bay or get their stay renewed, there would be a wellness check. We'd like to work with the RCMP marine division on that so that, if there is, in fact, an issue, the representative from the yacht club, when they go to a vessel and see something they are not happy with or are concerned about, can contact the marine division. The municipality of Oak Bay does not have a navy.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

We'll go on to Madame Desbiens now for two and a half minutes or less, please.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witnesses, you're saying there are 100 factors used to assess each boat's risks and determine what to do with the boat. We know that abandoned boats have been used for criminal activity, and what that implies for examining the 100 factors involved if a dangerous good or illegal substance was on board.

Do you think simpler, more suitable criteria and working in phases would increase productivity or efficiency? What if a dozen assessment criteria were used to detect whether a boat carries illegal substances, but another 10 for the boat's environmental risk? Determining the consequences of abandoning each boat could be based on priority.

Chair, Friends of Shoal Harbour Society

Are you asking Eric?

Chair, Cadboro Bay Dead Boats Society

If the question is for me, somehow I don't have interpretation up and running on my machine. I'm sorry.

Chair, Friends of Shoal Harbour Society

One of the first steps is that the federal government needs to clarify the definition of a mooring buoy as a minor work. There needs to be a clearer definition of “abandoned” and a clearer definition of “dilapidated”. You can do this by regulation.

Once that's been clarified, you could go to an organization like the Coast Guard. It would able to very easily set up a list of criteria as to what is hazardous. I'm sure it could come up with three, four or five top criteria pretty quickly.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you.

We'll now go on to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, again, for all the important information you've provided to us today.

I want to bring it all together with this point. We know that, on average, if we look at every year, we see—and this is a very rough number—that for every one vessel that's cleaned up, five are being abandoned right now in British Columbia. Those are extraordinary numbers. We can see that what we're doing is not meeting the need.

The other point I was going to mention is that, in particular, we're seeing the impacts in some of our local communities. In my riding of Nanaimo—Ladysmith, along the coast of Ladysmith, there are vessel graveyards that are getting bigger and bigger. I know we're also seeing a problem in Gonzales Bay.

Perhaps I'll start with you, Mr. Dahli, and then, Mr. Peart, if we have time. Can you speak to how important it is that we have a comprehensive national strategy in place that would take into account first nations, municipalities, the provinces and the federal government, all working together to address this issue?

Chair, Cadboro Bay Dead Boats Society

If we don't all work together, we will continue being smacked from pillar to post as we go along. Like I said, Cadboro Bay is blessed with two municipalities. It's not that people would point fingers at another jurisdiction, but it appears to happen. As a former bureaucrat, I look at the links between municipal, provincial and federal, and it gives this old fella a headache trying to figure out just what it is that we're doing.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Peart, do you have any final words on that?

Chair, Friends of Shoal Harbour Society

Yes, absolutely. We need a comprehensive national approach that brings all the jurisdictions, municipalities and parties together to figure out a way to move forward. However, I would just preface that, in the meantime, the federal government needs to enforce its existing regulations, transfer the powers back to the Coast Guard and set up a registration system.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Thank you.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you for that.

I want to thank our witnesses, Mr. Dahli and Mr. Peart, for sharing your knowledge with the committee today as we work through this particular study.

I see that Madame Desbiens is putting up her hand for something.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC

Yes. I'd just like to point out that when sound checks are done with people taking part via video conference, we need to be sure they know how to use the interpretation controls. I say this because I often lose precious seconds. Thank you.