Evidence of meeting #125 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boats.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to both witnesses. There are so many questions and so little time.
I want to start with Mr. Watts, if I could, because he's on the west coast of Vancouver Island.
Are any of the vessels or the material you're finding washed ashore in your territory of international origin?
Elected Chief Councillor, Tseshaht First Nation
No, we don't have that specifically in our territory. I know other first nations on the west coast of Vancouver Island have had issues. I think up in Tla-o-qui-aht territory, in Tofino, they had one boat or barge that came from another country. Mostly the ones that have run aground are barges, and other boats that have been left are local. In particular, forestry companies, as an example, have some foreshore leases with the province. The most recent barge that was left was very old, probably shouldn't have been out there, wasn't safe to be there, and sunk. A lot of it's more local ownership.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. White, you mentioned that you have to work with many different levels of DFO.
Could you elaborate a little further on that in a short period of time, or provide more in detail in writing, if it's going to take a long time?
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
Thank you for the question.
Yes, I've been bringing these issues up at several different levels. We deal with the federal government in reconciliation working groups that bring these issues to a bit higher level. As well, I attend upper management meetings with the local Coast Guard and DFO. Then we're on the ground level, where I'm making calls to Coast Guard's ROC lines and the vessels of concern line to report these incidents.
It all starts on the ground level—our guys going out. If we're not seeing any action on the vessel being removed, or the contaminants, or on the information that we're providing, then I'm going to talk to someone a little bit higher up the chain to start getting things done and getting vessels moved.
Conservative
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
It should be. Thank you.
I guess this is for both of you, and you can answer individually. I'll start with you, Mr. White.
In your opinion, should the last registered owner be responsible for ensuring the transfer of registration takes place or else be responsible for the removal or cleanup of the vessel?
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
I think if we did do that, it would be great. I think they should be held accountable. I'll give you an example of a fishing boat on the west coast of Vancouver Island that I was involved with last year. It was a derelict fishing boat with oil and contaminants on it. The Coast Guard was being phoned over and over again. Finally, they intervened. The boat, for whatever reason, because of lack of capacity to dispose of the vessel, was towed to Victoria. The bill for that boat for disposal was $90,000. The owner of the boat didn't have that money. Now what do you do? Now you have a $90,000 bill. You're forcing a guy into bankruptcy. It's his boat and his responsibility, but you're not going to get blood from a stone.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Watts, do have any comment? What do you feel about the last registered owner either being responsible for the transfer of licence to the new owner or else being responsible for the cost of the vessels?
Elected Chief Councillor, Tseshaht First Nation
Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. The owner of the boat should be responsible for what happens to the boat. I think it's also about streamlining transfers of ownership. Again, I hate to bring up the cars example, but it's just making sure that it's very clear who the owners are.
I think what often happens—and what I see, anyway—is that sometimes those transfers don't happen in time, or some people just don't carry them out right away, and they just buy a boat, as an example, off somebody and start using it.
I think that obviously whoever the owner is at the time of the accident should be responsible for it. I'll say it again. Before the incident happens, let's prevent it from happening, and if it does, let's not wait for an insurance provider to step in and fix it. Let's fix it.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I was trying to get at the prevention piece of it because that's how I think.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you for that.
We'll now move on to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less.
shíshálh First Nation
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What we have, then, is an issue of “dock and dash” or “buoy and boot it”. This brings out my internal Conservative. I want a gold star for that.
Obviously, there's a lot of sneaking around, trying to just get a boat out of the way without anybody noticing. I would imagine, Mr. White, that this leads to boats being abandoned in very difficult places in a very dangerous manner, or at least increasing the potential that something bad is going to happen. Is that a fair assessment?
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
Yes, absolutely. I'll give you an example.
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
I'll be very quick.
Last week, we identified a vessel of concern. We went out. We had a big storm come up, and now the vessel is scattered all over the beach. There's been no response. Right now, we don't have the capacity to remove vessels. We could tow—
shíshálh First Nation
I have to intercept you right there.
Councillor Watts, you mentioned that you have beach keepers who are out doing this kind of work and looking after the beach. We had a previous discussion with Chief Joe, prior to your appearance here, and she talked about a guardian program that had been around but that unfortunately lost its funding. Can you give me an idea of what the cost is for your beach keepers program?
Elected Chief Councillor, Tseshaht First Nation
Yes. It is funded mostly by Parks Canada. Depending on the seasons, it could be several hundred thousand dollars a year. It's not cheap. As you know, fuel is very expensive.
However, really, they have other jobs they do. It's not just monitoring for derelict boats. They are out there providing visitor services to people. They're often like a first responder or the first ones on the shore, so they're pulling multiple tasks. They're also counting southern resident killer whales. Much like the others and our friends at Snuneymuxw First Nation, they have a bunch of other work that they do besides just watching out for derelict boats.
shíshálh First Nation
That's great. Are they still getting their training down at the Kitsilano Coast Guard station?
Elected Chief Councillor, Tseshaht First Nation
Yes, I think what's been great is actually a lot of the collaboration. I shared before that WCMRC is, I know, industry funded, but they do provide training for us, and we are collaborating with them as well as with Coastal Restoration Society. Again, we do collaborate with other groups out there, so they are getting more training. They also trained with the Coast Guard. They do receive training at numerous places with different partners.
shíshálh First Nation
You mentioned collaboration. There are a lot of different communities up and down the coast, and although their specific problems might vary from place to place, it seems that there could be good use of time and effort to collaborate and to pull something together that covers the whole coast, where you can come up with the brainstorming and the tactics. You could maybe get some good advice going back and forth on strategies for dealing with that. Mr. White, would you provide a quick comment?
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
Yes, absolutely.
That's kind of what we're partnering on with the Canadian Coast Guard, developing a zipper tool that's going to allow first nations up and down the coast to collaborate with response assets and to be able to get real-time information from that communications portal to develop that response plan.
shíshálh First Nation
Good.
Here's an off-the-wall idea. People are abandoning these boats in bad places, creating all kinds of difficulties. What if we set up system where they could just volunteer their boat, but made sure it went to this location. They could bring it in, sign a paper to give it up and walk away. I'm sure the processing of the boat, in terms of the time, the effort and the money needed, would be much better if they basically were just given a free pass to get rid of something that they would otherwise want to “dock and dash”.
Director, Marine Division, Snuneymuxw First Nation
I attended the Salish Sea Strategy Symposium last year. I sat through a session with the Canadian Coast Guard, and there was a discussion about a boat amnesty program, which is kind of what you're referring to.
It would be a great idea if people could potentially take in a boat and have it disposed of. I know about developing; I've been working with some of the people, as Mr. Watts said, like the Coastal Restoration Society on developing systems to have them removed in partnership with them as well, but I think a boat amnesty program would go a long way. You'd see a lot of people.