Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 129 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Please address all comments through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, September 16, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the impact of the reopening of the cod fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec.

Welcome to the witnesses here today.

On Zoom, we have, from the Nunatsiavut Government, Jim Goudie, deputy minister of lands and natural resources.

Thank you for taking the time to appear. You will have five minutes or less for your opening statement.

Mr. Goudie, the floor is yours.

[James Goudie, Deputy Minister, Lands and Natural Resources, Nunatsiavut Government]

Good evening, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name, as the chair just alluded to, is James Goudie. I'm the deputy minister of lands and natural resources for the Nunatsiavut government. I thank you for the opportunity to present here today.

Cod is more than an economic resource. It's an iconic species for Labrador Inuit. It's central to our way of life, for both sustenance and culture. Therefore, it is crucial that the Nunatsiavut Government is involved in the management of and access to this resource as it recovers.

Over the past three years, we have seen encouraging signs of cod stock recovery in the waters off our shores. Our inshore fishers report positive catches, and we are optimistic about the future of this fishery. While there's still work to be done, we are hopeful these signs will be supported by upcoming assessments and collaborative management efforts.

The Labrador Inuit have been historically excluded from sharing this resource, and we do not support a return to where quotas were distributed without our meaningful participation. It is essential that Inuit and other true and legitimate indigenous groups are given proper recognition and rights to this important resource on a go-forward basis. The Nunatsiavut Government, which represents the only Inuit collective in Atlantic Canada, does not recognize the NunatuKavut Community Council as an indigenous organization, and does not support their involvement in this allocation process. The Nunatsiavut Government and the Innu Nation are the only recognized indigenous governments in Labrador and should be the primary beneficiaries of this resource.

In 2003, inshore cod-affected fishers were offered shrimp allocations in shrimp fishing area 5, which overlaps with our marine zone. With the reopening of the commercial cod fishery, we believe the shrimp quota should be reassigned to the Nunatsiavut Government. This would make a minimum of 11% of the total shrimp quota available to Labrador Inuit fishers, as outlined in the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement.

The 599.4-tonne cod quota allocated to the Nunatsiavut Government has been 97% landed to inshore plants in this province, benefiting 12 Labrador Inuit fishers and supporting numerous spinoff benefits to inshore plants. While we have landed our cod exclusively using the inshore, we do not believe the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or Canada, should be able to dictate to the two indigenous groups in Labrador how to land their cod. We appreciate the ability to use the offshore for our quota allocation, should we choose to do so. We have had an excellent collaboration with regional DFO staff in drafting a comprehensive harvesting plan for our cod allocation. This partnership ensures our harvesting practices align with sustainable management principles. We look forward to continuing this productive collaboration.

Based on what we are seeing in our water, we anticipate a positive 2025 stock assessment. Our fishers are seeing good signs of cod recovery, and we are hopeful this trend will be confirmed in the upcoming assessment.

The Nunatsiavut Government is committed to working with the Government of Canada and all stakeholders to ensure the long-term sustainability of this important resource. We look forward to continuing to engage with the standing committee, and we are encouraging a fair and inclusive process that respects the rights and interests of Labrador Inuit and other true indigenous peoples.

Thank you for your time. I'm happy to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to our first round of questioning.

We'll start off with Mr. Small for six minutes or less.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Goudie for appearing before this committee.

Mr. Goudie, I might get off on a little tangent here, but right now, raw seal skins and seal products are not permitted to be exported out of Newfoundland and Labrador. That was addressed in a Senate committee report and in a report from this committee here—basically interprovincial trade barriers in seal products and how they reduce our access to harvest seals. Now, 400,000 seals, according to the latest estimate I saw, with a diet of 2.99 tonnes per day, consume over 100 million tonnes of fish, various species throughout the year.

How's that going to impact the growth of the cod biomass?

[James Goudie]

I think anyone who lives in Newfoundland and Labrador is well aware of the impact that seal populations have had on cod and will have on cod. We would certainly like to see former markets and/or any other barriers in terms of seal products opened up, which would make seal harvesting more viable in this country. I think that is probably the biggest impediment to what I see is certainly a viable seal industry, once again, in our province.

In terms of the aspects of seal predation on cod, I think that's definitely there. I think anybody who lives in our coastal communities can see it, but I will tell you, as I did in my opening statement, that we have seen a massive increase in cod presence in our waters, certainly in the fall. I will tell you that my father, who is going to turn 83 this year, says that there are places in my hometown where we never caught cod in the past but we can catch them now.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Goudie.

Oceana and Oceans North both submitted written testimony to this committee calling for the capelin fishery to be abolished. The seal population in Atlantic Canada is estimated to consume over a million tonnes of capelin per year, yet somehow Oceana and Oceans North feel that a mere 25,000-tonne capelin fishery in Atlantic Canada is holding back the growth of the cod stock. We're talking about 25,000 tonnes compared to a million tonnes.

Mr. Goudie, do you think that Oceana and Oceans North have a leg to stand on in calling for the demise of the capelin fishery? They're saying that 25,000 tonnes is holding back the recovery of the cod fishery.

[James Goudie]

The Nunatsiavut Government is not involved in the capelin fishery in any regard. I appreciate your question, but I reserve the right to say “no comment”. I think that, for Newfoundland and Labradorians, seal predation speaks for itself.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you very much.

My next question is about adjacency.

In terms of adjacency, Mr. Goudie, how adjacent to Nunatsiavut was your recent cod quota harvested?

[James Goudie]

It was within the Nunatsiavut marine zone as outlined in the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement, which is directly adjacent and within 2J.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Were those quotas by that inshore fleet caught in 2J?

[James Goudie]

Yes, sir.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay. I know quite a few of those captains, and they told me that they were caught east of Fogo, so am I wrong on that?

[James Goudie]

Yes, sir.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Oh, okay. I'll have to check back with them again, I guess.

Going forward, do you feel that, at 3.3%, the share of quota for your nation is fair and adequate?

[James Goudie]

No, Mr. Small, I don't believe 3.3% is fair or adequate.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

As time goes on, what's your plan in terms of leasing out that quota? Do you expect to continue to lease that quota to inshore fleets, or do you have a plan to lease that quota to OCI in a similar fashion to what happened with the northern shrimp quota this year?

[James Goudie]

I'm not quite sure if you're implying that we leased any shrimp to OCI, which I would consider a false statement. All our shrimp were caught by Nunatsiavut beneficiaries per our designation policy.

In terms of what our plan is, we had hoped to land all of Nunatsiavut's quota in every species with our inshore fishers, but we would like to reserve the right to use the offshore if we need to do so, which we do with our uncaught shrimp if our inshore fishers can't catch it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Goudie, you referenced excellent collaboration with DFO. Here, we often get a different perspective, where there is actually more criticism of how DFO is interacting with various resource groups.

Could you explain a bit more for the committee how your negotiations are going with DFO?

[James Goudie]

I think it's more in terms of our collaboration with DFO on the ground with some of the regional managers and regional staff versus any kinds of discussions we might have with fisheries management DFO in Ottawa. Certainly, I'm a skeptic and very vocal on how I feel about fisheries management in general. However, in terms of our actual work with on-the-ground people, we feel like we're certainly being heard. Also with my staff and the technical people who work on our licensing and the management systems, we have an excellent working relationship with them here in Nunatsiavut.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

The decision the minister made heading into this season is one that I take it you endorse.

[James Goudie]

Aspects of it, I would endorse. We were certainly pleased with the increase in quota from what we had seen in the stewardship fishery. There are other aspects of her decision that we certainly weren't happy with. I think that was touched on somewhat in my opening statement.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

For the benefit of the committee, could you give a comparison between how you proceeded this year versus for the stewardship fishery, which you referenced, in the past?

[James Goudie]

I won't go into tonnage, because I have staff who tell me that, but we had a massive increase in our overall quota from the stewardship fishery to our current fishery.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

How would that have economically impacted you in the communities that benefited from that?