Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks for that clarity.

We have also heard a little bit about early closures. There was a report that on November 13, DFO closed 2J, 3K and 3L fishing areas to licence-holders fishing on the Nunatsiavut Government indigenous allocation using fixed gear. Can you confirm whether that is correct?

[James Goudie]

Yes. From the briefing from my staff, I believe that is correct.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is this something that you expected? How early is this closure? Are you drawing any conclusions about the fishery from this closure?

[James Goudie]

It wasn't unexpected. At that point, again, if you look at our numbers, we had already caught the majority of our quota, or almost all of it. In terms of concern, there's no concern at this point in terms of that closure date or how it would have impacted us.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Ms. Collins, you're doing well representing Ms. Barron. You went over time a little bit, and Ms. Barron is good at that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being here with us today, sir.

I believe you said in your opening remarks or in one of your answers that there were aspects of the cod opening decision that you weren't happy with or that your group wasn't happy with. Can you elaborate a little further on what it was you weren't happy with?

[James Goudie]

Absolutely. We were concerned with what was called the special allocation or special allotment to the NunatuKavut Community Council. We feel that this is an indigenous allotment by any other name. We therefore feel that certainly half of whatever they were allocated—I believe it was the exact same as us, so 3.3%—should have been split and then offered to us and the Innu Nation.

There are a significant number of licence-holders still in southern Labrador. We believe the allocation should have been the same as it was in the other parts of the province to those licence-holders, but any special allocation should have just been split and given to us under our indigenous allocations, as well as the Innu Nation.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Help me clarify in my mind how it worked. There were general allocations of quota. Then there was this special allocation or special allotment to another group that you didn't get part of. Is that correct, or was that other allotment to match what your group got?

[James Goudie]

I think that the only one who can answer that question for sure is the fisheries minister but, yes, there was an allotment for the two indigenous groups—the Innu Nation and us, the Nunatsiavut Government—which was 3.3%, then there was a special allotment to the NunatuKavut Community Council of the same amount of quota, and then the rest was disbursed as per the general guidelines.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Were you provided any explanation as to why that other special allotment went to one group and not to your group as well?

[James Goudie]

No, sir. I would love to know what a “special allotment” is and whether I could get some for all of the other species that we fish.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

You also mentioned that one of your harvesters had a hook-and-line system that did not work well. Can you explain why it didn't work well? We heard other anecdotal reports that the longline fishery worked really well and the quality of catch was better.

[James Goudie]

In a condensed nutshell, his hooks were too big. He was using a system that was, essentially, for turbot, and he thought he'd try it out to see how it worked for cod.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Now, on inshore versus offshore, you mentioned that you believe you should have the right to harvest in the area adjacent to your territory. Is the offshore fishery adjacent?

[James Goudie]

I can't give a correct answer in terms of where the offshore would have fished that quota allocation if we had decided to go that route.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I turn it over to Mr. Small for the remainder of my time. I believe he has another question or two.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

I have a question for Mr. Goudie about the current assessment that's began with the bottom trawl survey. I'll just hold up the map right here. There's all this inshore area here that goes from the mid-Labrador coast all the way down along the northeast coast of Newfoundland and Labrador within a mile of the land—what we call, back home, “in around the rocks”. I'm hearing tremendous reports of northern cod being reported by guys who are out hunting seabirds or whatnot. They're seeing this codfish acoustically.

In the meantime, the offshore survey is taking place out here, in this shaded area, at the exact same time as this massive amount of codfish is being reported in the very nearshore zones, so how accurate do you think the cod survey is? How accurate can the results be, when we have this massive amount of fish being reported very nearshore while the DFO survey is taking place 50 to 100 miles offshore?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Give a very short answer, please, because all the time allocated has expired and we have gone over.

[James Goudie]

Mr. Small, I think you're absolutely right. There are significant portions of the cod quota that are probably missing. We also voiced our concerns to DFO, and we had our initial thoughts that DFO should proceed with caution and with conservation in mind. I have my own concerns about most of the fishery stock analysis and research done for all species, and I voiced that to DFO multiple times.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. It's just a quick point of clarification. I'm a guest to the committee. In our committee, we're not allowed to hold up things and point to them onscreen. I just want to see whether there's a different.... I apologize. I really don't want to cut off Mr. Small or interrupt. I think he was making a valid point. I just want to make sure that we're following procedure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I don't think it's abnormal for somebody in this committee to hold up a map when we're talking about different zones, so the guests will know what the question is about. Other than that, we're not waving the flag or anything.

It's Mr. Small's time. During that particular time, he can do with that time as he wishes. He can play tiddlywinks if he wants to, and I'm not going to stop him—he won't win, but he can play it.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!