Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[James Goudie]

Traditionally, we used to designate, under our designation system, only one fisher to fish cod quota. This year, we were eligible to designate 12. Unfortunately, the announcement was somewhat unexpected for us in terms of ramping up the production capabilities of the only plant we would land at, so we're hoping to do that in 2025. Plants in other parts of the province benefited from the allocation to the Nunatsiavut Government.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay.

You referenced that your fishers are telling you that there are good signs of a cod recovery. Could you expand on that, Mr. Goudie?

[James Goudie]

Yes. Those are just based on general conversations and observations from our designated fishers in our fleet that there was certainly an increase in the cod stocks. It's getting easier to catch the fish you need to catch, and we landed 97%. Our last fisher...essentially it boiled down to having two big hooks, so we couldn't land 100%.

However, even in local traditional knowledge, just from our cultural activities, we know cod stocks have increased significantly in Nunatsiavut waters.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you explain what fishing method you're using to catch your quota? What gear type do you use?

[James Goudie]

I think it's predominantly gillnets. Again, I have technical people to work with me on that.

There's also hook and line. One of our fishers had a hook-and-line system set up, which didn't work out too well, unfortunately.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Goudie, you referenced a “fair” process. You were expecting a fair process going forward. For the benefit of the committee, could you elaborate a bit on how you would perceive or view a fair process for the fishers you represent?

[James Goudie]

Absolutely.

I think one thing that's forgotten by a lot of these online sleuths and others involved in the fishery is that when the cod moratorium was put in place, there was no Labrador Inuit land claim agreement.

There are certain stipulations in there that we expect from the Canadian government in terms of consultation and engagement on any fishery species that might be adjacent to or within Nunatsiavut waters: early engagement and certainly what we think is a fair and equitable treatment of our rights in our waters for those fishery stocks adjacent to us. I think that in terms of cod, DFO did a somewhat better job than in some of the other fishery species in terms of contacting us early. We hope that that continues.

We don't see, historically, that what cod was allocated was fair, nor does it represent the current situation of the Canadian government or the reality of Canada in terms of land claim agreements, which have advanced since that time.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We will now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witness for being here. Once again, the witnesses are teaching us a lot.

From what you say, Mr. Goudie, you have a good relationship with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO, and it listens to you.

We've had witnesses come before us and talk about a system in which fishers would be involved in all aspects of the fishery. Those witnesses were in favour of including fishers in the management system.

Is that a possibility on your end, according to the people you represent?

[James Goudie]

Thank you, Vice-Chair, for your question.

As far as I know, in terms of all aspects of the process we were involved in.... If there were pieces of the process that I am not aware of, then we weren't involved in them, but I do believe that we were involved in all those processes. DFO did reach out early, and we discussed with them what we thought a future cod fishery should look like in Nunatsiavut and in the rest of the province.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

You said earlier that, if the fishery stock became more abundant, you could call on offshore fishers. If I understand correctly, in principle, the type of fishing you do relies on inshore fishers rather than offshore ones. Is that correct?

[James Goudie]

No. Our goal in all fishery species we harvest is to fish inshore. What we would like is to reserve the right to fish offshore if, for some reason, we don't land all of our quota, or if we have issues with our inshore fishermen in terms of being able to get out there. I mean, Labrador is not a very easy place to fish. We don't want to leave the fish in the water in any regard.

We currently have a system with shrimp where, if our inshore fishermen cannot land it all, then we sell it to the offshore. Some years it's very high, and some years it's very low. Fortunately for us, we landed 97% of our cod allocation inshore. We hope to land 100% of it inshore in 2025, pending any decisions made by the minister in the future.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I want to make sure I understand. We're told that, in the past, the offshore style of fishing caused a lot of damage to the biomass. That has been proven. Ideally, the goal is to have more inshore fishers, better profitability and better access to quotas without using offshore fishers. Based on what we've heard at committee, offshore fishers are not welcome in the cod fishery recovery system. We know the history of that type of fishing, which caused a lot of damage to the biomass.

I understand that you want to reserve the right to use offshore fishers if you see that you won't be able to reach the fish quota. Although you don't actually like this type of fishing, you do see it as a tremendous economic opportunity. Is that correct?

[James Goudie]

I think it would be a good economic decision for the Nunatsiavut Government on any quota that might be allocated that's left in the water and that our inshore fishermen would not be able to catch. Again, the goal for us is to fish all of our cod inshore.

There are other indigenous groups who aren't set up to fish as easily as we or other fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec are. What would happen to their quota allocation if they couldn't fish it inshore? We think that we and the other true, legitimate indigenous groups in Newfoundland and Labrador should be guaranteed our access, regardless of how we fish it.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Goudie. That's helpful.

The Bloc Québécois recently held a fishery forum in Caraquet with fishers from the Maritimes. We were told that there was also cod further south in the gulf.

Have you heard the same thing, that there is plenty of cod in the gulf right now?

[James Goudie]

No, Vice-Chair, I have not heard that. I can only testify to what I know is happening within Nunatsiavut and our waters, and I can tell you there has been a significant abundance of cod over the last three years.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Collins for six minutes or less, please.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witness for being here with us today.

I want to start off by saying I'm a British Columbian member of Parliament, so I know a bit about the importance of wild salmon to first nations all along our coast. We know that 90% of first nations in B.C. rely on wild salmon for food and social and ceremonial purposes. It is an iconic species. It has a deep and significant place in the culture and practices of first nations in British Columbia.

You touched on this a bit in your opening statement, but can you talk a bit more about the importance of cod to the people of Nunatsiavut?

[James Goudie]

Yes, cod is certainly one of those staple species for us. Arctic salmon and Arctic char are as well. Cod is one of the species we've fished from time immemorial, before our interactions with the Vikings, long before Christopher Columbus and long before any other western people came to our shores.

It is intrinsic to who we are as a people, the same as with polar bears, caribou and everything else. It's hard to put into words, in a western sense, what that cultural connection is. It's often difficult for me to do that, but we have a relationship with cod. We've always had a relationship with cod, and we certainly want to be involved in any kind of management measures and fisheries that involve cod from now and going into the future.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Can you describe a bit the impacts of the moratorium in 1992?

[James Goudie]

I'm the son of a fisherman. The impacts were the same as they were on the island portion of Newfoundland. Certainly, there was a question of the viability, the future and living in the region. Nunatsiavut has much less investment from the province or the Government of Canada in infrastructure and other things. We're completely isolated. There are no roads going into Nunatsiavut. There was a question of how the economy of northern Labrador was going to go forward.

This was before the land claims agreements. Fortunately for us, the largest nickel mine in the world just happened to be around the corner, and land claims just happened to be around the corner, but there was a lot of outward migration and a lot of mass.... I guess the economic standards dropped, and we're still below the provincial average in the poverty level and other social and economic factors.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

You've spoken a bit about how you do most of your fishing inshore, but for the part that can't be captured in there, you want the right to be able to go offshore to do that. That makes sense, given your historical and ongoing relationships with the land, the land claims agreements that you have and the government's provincial and federal obligations to indigenous peoples.

I'm curious; when it comes to that other allocation, the 6% share for non-indigenous offshore fishing, do you have a position on that?

[James Goudie]

No. We have no position on that. Again, we would want to have the right to use the offshore, if we could. Obviously, the offshore would [Inaudible—Editor] some sort of allocation in order to be able to just switch into fishing someone else's quota. I'm not sure the actual...because I've seen different things in terms of the NAFO piece. I know that the stewardship fishery certainly was good for inshore fishermen, but if you're another NAFO member outside of Canada, you're seeing this stewardship fishery that was, I believe, although I could be wrong, the largest stewardship fishery anywhere in the world. I certainly understand the Canadian offshore being somewhat disgruntled if NAFO offshore can fish and they can't. I understand that argument of it.

In terms of whether or not we support the offshore, there's no comment there in terms of the Nunatsiavut Government. There's no position there. But we do realize that if we had decided to fish all our quota allocation offshore, there would have to be an offshore component willing to do that.