Evidence of meeting #130 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was habitat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I will let our witnesses go, and we'll continue on with committee business. We'll ask the clerk to do that actual vote now.
Mr. Small, you had your hand up to speak to the motion by Ms. Barron.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did.
I ate in the parliamentary dining room last Thursday, where I had wild char. There was no Atlantic salmon of any type on the menu, either farmed or wild. Given that Norway, a leader in ecosystem protection and management, produces 18 times more farmed salmon than Canada and that its goal is to increase that by five times by 2050, I have a tough time with the rationale of my colleague's motion. I urge the committee not to support this motion.
We're supporting Canadian livelihoods. We heard everything today about habitat destruction. We heard about pinniped predation. We heard about all these factors and so many others that would positively affect the rebound of wild salmon stocks.
It really puzzles me why we'd be voting on this and what message it will send to the coastal people who depend on the salmon farming industry for their livelihood, especially given that great strides are being made to increase environmental protection at these farming sites. I've visited them myself. They're continuing to increase their efforts to protect the surrounding environments.
I won't be able to support the motion of Ms. Barron.
Thank you.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you.
I understand, in some respects, the symbolism behind Ms. Barron's motion, but I think it's misaimed, for two reasons.
First, particularly for anybody tuning in from Atlantic Canada, the motion to dispense with open-net aquaculture operations is only in British Columbia. It is not in Atlantic Canada. This is not a nationwide initiative, but it has basically been proven that because of the damage done by open-net aquaculture in B.C., something has to be done to clean up that situation.
However, I would also reflect that the salmon served in the parliamentary dining room or in restaurants all over Ontario and Quebec most likely comes from Atlantic Canada, not from B.C. To assume that we're bringing in farmed fish from B.C. is probably misaimed, given that there is a very active salmon aquaculture industry in Atlantic Canada, which, again, to go back to my first comment, is not subject to the open-net fish farm ban that's coming in in British Columbia.
To use an old prairie expression, I think Ms. Barron's barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you.
I appreciate what Mr. Hardie just said on this. It is very clear that in Atlantic Canada, aquaculture is under the jurisdiction of the provinces. To me, to make some kind of motion regarding this and to have the committee take this up would be beyond our scope and really overreach into an area of provincial jurisdiction.
It has repeatedly been made clear by all of the premiers and the ministers of fisheries in our region that this is one area we should not be weighing in on. British Columbia is a situation in and of itself, but Atlantic Canada has been very clear on this, and it is not something we need to be taking up.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I have to echo some of my colleagues' previous comments on this point. We don't know where the salmon in the restaurant is sourced from. This is partly because we don't have the seafood traceability program that was promised by the current government. I just want to point that out. To ban salmon from the House of Commons restaurant doesn't make any sense when everything, I would assume, has to be approved by the CFIA as being edible and safe.
I would tend to agree that the motion seems to be out of line.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I do understand what Ms. Barron is saying, and it is true that people are worried. However, based on my 35 years of experience as a restaurant owner, I can tell you that the manager of a restaurant takes direction from his or her employers. For example, I would tell my chef in charge of purchasing that we had to prioritize local and environmentally friendly products, but I would leave it to their discretion to manage the menu, because there are a host of other factors that affect the final version of the menu, such as value for money, vegetarian requirements, and so on.
For all these reasons, you can't give a directive to a restaurant manager. I understand Ms. Barron's concern, but we have to solve the problems related to aquaculture through legislation and look at good and bad practices, not by imposing directives on a specific restaurant, even if it's the parliamentary restaurant. There are too many factors at play.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Again, I think we've heard pretty clear testimony, even as of the last meeting, about impacts on coastal communities—devastating impacts. With this study that we're on right now, we're dealing with the Fisheries Act, and I think we have a lot on our plate to get covered off, a lot to deal with.
To take valuable time from this committee's efforts to get into something that obviously has massive jurisdictional questions surrounding it would not be prudent. It would not be prudent for us to spend time on something like this. I don't know about the rest of the committee members, but I know for a fact that some of our provincial counterparts would be very clear on how they'd feel about our taking up something like this and entertaining this type of motion.
I strongly urge the committee to make sure that we're not going into this fray and dealing with areas of provincial jurisdiction that are clearly marked out and have been clearly defined.
They've made their voices abundantly clear to all of us, I know, here on the east coast. I know that the west coast has a different perspective and advantage, and I respect that, but I think it would behoove this committee and wise for this committee to not go down this particular road at this particular time.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to add some final comments to the comments that were made, if I could.
First of all, I completely agree around the point of how this highlights again that we don't have a sound labelling system in place. I agree with that completely.
The other thing is around the “devastating impacts”. I think that there are devastating impacts from the open-pen net fish farms from coast to coast. We're seeing research that's now coming out on the impacts on the east coast as well. I do appreciate that there are differences between the coasts, but the impacts are noted on all coasts of these open-pen net fish farms.
The reason I bring this forward is that we're seeing advertisements from the open-pen fish farmers that are promoting the fish as being available through the parliamentary restaurant here on Parliament Hill. I think it does make a big difference for us when we have the knowledge of the impacts on our coastal communities and we have the parliamentary restaurant being used as a form of advertisement for fish farms that are, unfortunately, polluting our water. I do think it speaks to a bigger issue here of our taking a clear stance.
My hope was that we would take a clear stance together to make it clear that we want to see a sustainable future for our coasts, not one with open-pen fish farms whose profits are not even remaining within our country—and they're polluting our waters—and that we would be uniting together on this.
It doesn't sound like I have that support from my colleagues, which I'm not overly surprised by, to be honest. I think it speaks to both the Conservatives and the Liberals again putting the profits of these companies first, at the expense of our coastal communities.
With that, I look forward to seeing the vote results, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to my colleagues for taking the time to have this important discussion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
It seems that Mr. Small has his hand up on the screen.
Is that from before, Cliff?
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I echo the sentiments of MP Desbiens in terms of the responsibility of chefs and whatnot to look at sustainability and eco-certification of various fish products, as has been done extensively over the last 10 to 20 years all over North America and all over the world.
To tie the hands of chefs and experts in the culinary field and food service industry is the wrong thing to do when we have people proud of the field they work in and proud of their work. To dictate to them the products that they have to use, I think, is a bit wrong.
I think that this bit of creativity and the responsibility and rewards from making decisions like that should be left with the culinary folks in the precinct, as with everywhere, in all fields and all aspects of food service. I think it should be up to the people who operate food services to make the decisions on the sourcing of their food.
As my colleague Mr. Arnold said earlier, we don't have traceability of seafood products in the way that we would like to have it. First of all, maybe it'd be good to get some traceability, in fact, to see if we're actually being served that kind of fish. As I said earlier, I eat in the parliamentary dining room and in the cafeteria all the time. Once in a while, I'll have a meal with you, Mr. Chair, out of our ecumenical spirit as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and I've yet to see any of the fish that Ms. Barron has alluded to in her motion, so I find it a tiny bit...I can't say irrelevant, out of respect for Ms. Barron, because we have such an amicable working relationship around the table, but I think this motion is not the right motion, especially at this point in time, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Small.
We'll now finish up with Mr. Weiler and get to a vote.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I appreciate the motion that's been brought forward. The government here has made a pretty clear commitment to transition away from open-net salmon aquaculture in British Columbia. I think it is important to be able to practise what you preach and to take leadership in that regard.
Having said that, there is an inaccuracy in this motion. It says that the government has committed to transition away from open-net salmon farms. That's true, but it's only in British Columbia.
Were this motion to be amended to say that the government has committed to transition away from open-net salmon farms in British Columbia and then at the end, to call “for the House of Commons administration to end the practice of purchasing farmed salmon from open net pen salmon farms in British Columbia”, then I would support this one.
I think it would address some of the issues that other members have brought up about a different framework being in place for Atlantic Canada. I would certainly support that.
Accordingly, I would put forward an amendment to make those changes. Then we might, hopefully, be able to find some agreement around this table.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Okay.
Mr. Small, your hand is still up. Is that from before, or is that a new hand?
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I only have two hands. There are no new hands.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Okay. There's a yellow one showing on your screen.
I'll go to Ms. Barron and then Mr. Arnold.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to ask my colleague Mr. Weiler if he is moving an amendment to my motion specifically. If so, I'd be happy to support that amendment.
Liberal