Fisheries Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 133 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Please address all your comments through the chair.

With our first panel today, from 4:30 to 5:30, we're studying supplementary estimates (B), 2024-25. We have votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

We have with us on our first panel the Honourable Diane Lebouthillier, Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard. Also joining us, we have Annette Gibbons, deputy minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and Mario Pelletier, commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard.

Welcome, Minister and officials, and thank you for appearing today.

Minister, you have five minutes or less for your opening statement. You have the floor.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Thank you very much.

I'm delighted to be here today, on the unceded traditional territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation, to present the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2024-25 on behalf of Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard.

Before I begin my remarks on the supplementary estimates, I would like to inform the committee of a matter of interest to some members. I'm pleased to announce that the Government of Canada has approved a new set of regulations for the elver fishery, and that these new regulations will be published in the Canada Gazette on December 18. These new regulations will create licences for possession, export and solutions to enable traceability that will help manage this fishery into the future. While I await the final advice and recommendations of departmental officials, I am more confident than ever that the 2025 elver fishery will proceed as per my commitment.

In the supplementary estimates, I am requesting $531.1 million. That amount includes $524.7 million in approved appropriations and $6.4 million in statutory appropriations..

In terms of approved appropriations, the bulk of that funding will be divided among the following four areas: funding for the Great Bear Sea project for permanence initiative; funding to advance reconciliation on indigenous fishing rights; funding for small craft harbours; and funding for the Coast Guard, including money for fuel and fleet renewal.

I'd like to take a moment to highlight those last two items and their importance for our communities.

As federal Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, small craft harbours are one of my top priorities. This essential coastal infrastructure supports Canada's thriving fish and seafood sector, which employed over 45,000 people in 2022. With nearly 950 small craft harbours in the federal inventory, it takes a lot of time, effort and money to keep them in good working order. It has become even more difficult due to extreme weather events.

The funds I'm asking for today will be used to repair and maintain small craft harbours, including those damaged by hurricane Fiona, through initial investments in climate-resilient infrastructure.

I'd like to take one minute to highlight several ridings that are receiving funding for small craft harbours under the supplementary estimates (B). The riding of Miramichi-Grand Lake, currently represented by MP Jake Stewart, will receive approximately $1.63 million for the McEachern's Point and Pointe-Sapin harbours. The riding of West Nova, represented by Chris d'Entremont, will receive funding for the Meteghan harbour. The riding of Cumberland-Colchester, represented by Stephen Ellis, will receive money for projects involving the Wallace harbour. These are just a few examples among other ridings, such as Selkirk-Interlake-Eastman, Lambton-Kent-Middlesex, Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, Parry Sound-Muskoka, York-Simcoe and Chatham-Kent-Leamington.

Small craft harbours are the heart of many coastal and indigenous communities. By ensuring that they are safe, accessible, well maintained and built to withstand the effects of climate change, we will contribute to the long-term economic prosperity of the fish and seafood sector and the communities that depend on it.

The endless games being played by the Conservative Party and others in the House of Commons are jeopardizing funding for projects in their own ridings. I strongly encourage the Conservative Party and others to stop jeopardizing important projects, projects in their own ridings. If they don't, they should be prepared to answer to their constituents as to why their harbours will be deprived of maintenance, dredging and other important activities.

That brings me to my next point, funding in the supplementary estimates for the Canadian Coast Guard.

In the supplementary estimates (B), the Canadian Coast Guard and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are requesting $29 million in funding to recapitalize the Canadian Coast Guard's small vessel fleet, $28.1 million for the operational requirements of the future fleet of the Canadian Coast Guard, and $20 million for marine fuel costs.

I don't think I need to explain to committee members how important the Canadian Coast Guard is. Many of us have witnessed first-hand the bravery of Canadian Coast Guard members and the important role they play in our communities. It is therefore disappointing that the Canadian Coast Guard fleet renewal work is at risk if the Conservative Party and others continue to threaten to not allow the supplementary estimates (B) to pass in the House of Commons. Even more worrying is the fact that the Leader of the Oppositionand his MPs are holding funding for fuel needed to conduct DFO activities hostage.

I'd like to conclude my remarks today by appealing to the Conservative Party and the other parties to get out of the way, to let the government do its job and to not let partisan anger put coastal communities at risk.

If altruism isn't enough, I invite the Conservative Party and others to allow the supplementary estimates (B) to pass for the simple reason that their own ridings are supposed to benefit from funding allocated under these estimates.

I'm now prepared to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to our first round of questioning for six minutes or less with Mr. Small.

I would ask members not to interrupt when somebody else is speaking, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and officials for being here today.

Minister, the FFAW, the MFU, the PEIFA, the UFCA and many other fishing industry stakeholders are quite concerned about who is gaining stakeholder status at stock assessments. Do you believe that foreign countries should be able to influence decisions made for Canadian stock assessments?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you for the question.

When it comes to stock assessment, we turn to science. We know that climate change is disrupting the oceans. We consult scientists—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

No, the question—

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

—we're talking with people from the associations—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Excuse me—

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

—and we also look at—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Cut her off.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

In short, we're working together with the associations, scientists and governments.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Again, do you believe that foreign countries should be able to influence stock assessments, yes or no?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

When it comes to our fish stock assessments, we don't work with foreign countries. As I mentioned, our work is based on science, on consultation with people in the communities and with the provincial governments.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Minister.

If an ENGO receives a large amount of its funding from foreign sources, is it possible that they might push the agenda of their foreign funders?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

As I mentioned, and I'll say it again, decisions at Fisheries and Oceans Canada are made by departmental scientists and experts. In addition, we work with the associations and discussions are held with provincial governments.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I didn't get an answer there.

Actual fishing industry stakeholders have reached out to me quite a bit lately. We have two ENGOs right now that have gained stakeholder status in many stock assessments throughout Atlantic Canada. For one of them, five out of nine major donors—that's Oceana—are foreign entities. Sixteen out of 22 major donors for Oceans North are from foreign countries. Did you know this?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I'll repeat my answer.

I want you to know that, when we're at the table making decisions, we work with departmental experts and scientists, with the associations and with the various government representatives in Canada. We make the best possible decisions to ensure that our children and grandchildren will have access to fisheries in the future. That's my priority, and that's what I'll continue to work towards.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Again, Minister, do you think that entities sitting around the table as stakeholders that receive the vast majority of their funding from foreign extreme activists should have the right to have an impact on the livelihood of our coastal communities?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

My answer is clear, but I'll repeat it for the fifth time.

We're working with the various partners at the table to make the best possible decisions to ensure that our children and grandchildren will have access to fisheries in the future. It's a question of our country's food security.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Minister, we have ENGOs in stock assessments that constantly want quota cuts, fisheries shut down and fishing areas taken away from fish harvesters, and they're funded by groups outside of Canada. Why are you allowing that to happen? You are the minister. You have the final say. You have ministerial discretion. You know the industry is upset about this.

Why are you not doing something about it?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I've been Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard for just over a year, and that hasn't stopped me from taking a clear stand in favour of developing the seal hunt. I don't see how any organization could influence me. The work is done and will continue to be done with the various representatives.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Will you commit to the fishing industry to removing the ENGOs that are funded by foreign countries from stock assessments in Atlantic Canada? Will you commit to that for the fishing industry here today, yes or no?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I didn't quite hear the interpretation, but I'll tell you what I'm going to commit to. I will commit, as I have since becoming Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, to ensuring that our children and grandchildren have access to fisheries in the future, and to working with our partners and with the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, I noticed that about 40% of the additional funding you're looking for is for something called the Great Bear Sea project finance for permanence. It's all about conservation. It also says it's supporting sustainable economic development.

Can you go into a bit more detail on sustainable economic development? Sometimes, when fishers hear “conservation”, especially those on the west coast, they feel that their ability to fish and make a livelihood, difficult as it is now, will be further impaired. Could you give us some more background on that, please?