Fisheries Committee on April 7th, 2022

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Perhaps if you can provide that, I'll move on to questions for Ms. Langlois.

Ms. Langlois, two containers contained tonnes of potassium amyl xanthate and thiourea dioxide and they're missing somewhere off the shores of Vancouver Island.

Do you think the volumes of these chemicals in those containers poses a risk to aquatic wildlife and the habitat?

[Dr. Valérie Langlois]

That is a very good question. Thanks.

I'm not aware of this specific example, so I would need to know how long those containers have been in the water, where exactly they are, the volume and whether the containers are broken. I would need more information.

I'm not sure of the chemicals you said. Did you say dioxin?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

These are potassium amyl xanthate and thiourea dioxide.

[Dr. Valérie Langlois]

Okay.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Apparently they are self-combustible when in contact with moisture. There were 57 tonnes on board in four different containers. Only two have been recovered.

[Dr. Valérie Langlois]

I would say that for sure there is a risk for the ecosystem, if that answers your question.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Hall, you mentioned that the panel report recommendations have not been adopted. I'm probably going to run out of my time, so could you provide the committee with the recommendations that have not been adopted by Canada?

In the time we have remaining, you mentioned there are jurisdictional gaps between Canadian Coast Guard and Transport Canada in these responses.

Could you elaborate a little further on that, please?

[Christopher Hall]

Sure. Thank you for the question.

With regard to the expert panel's report that was submitted, I believe, in September of 2014, to the best of my knowledge, only chapter 3 has not been adopted. Other recommendations certainly have been, and have helped form the basis of the excellent response regime that we do have in Canada.

I emphasize the word “response” because that is what it's all built on. It's built on responding to an incident after it occurs—after there is oil in the water or after there are other forms of pollutants in the water.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

You had mentioned jurisdictional gaps. Could you elaborate?

[Christopher Hall]

Sure.

In Canada, Transport Canada has a very significant marine agency and the DFO/Canadian Coast Guard is another, but there is no one maritime authority in Canada. We have two and we have other federal departments that have involvement with a marine incident.

The point about there being jurisdictional gaps is that the Coast Guard has its mandate, and works specifically within that. Transport Canada has its mandate. There are differences and there are perhaps disconnections between the two.

There is no single entity that is in charge overall in a marine emergency.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here.

The more we dive into this, the more it starts to look like this is an issue that Transport Canada would need to do the deeper dive into. The Canadian Coast Guard, of course, is there after something happens, but a lot of the questions that we've been trying to ask are things we need to know about before to prevent an incident from taking place.

Mr. Hall, do marine insurers have absolute liability when an incident like the loss of containers takes place?

[Christopher Hall]

To the best of my knowledge, yes. Through the oil spill convention, they have liability that must cover the cost of cleanup and other items.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Is there a standard coverage limit that applies to vessels?

[Christopher Hall]

I believe there is. I don't know what that number is off the top of my head, but I do believe that there is a limit to liability. It is staged. There's what's called a tier 1, which is the limit of liability for the vessel owners themselves, and then there is a tier 2. At tier 2, the ship-source oil pollution fund would kick in for additional funds. That's my understanding of the regime.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

In any event, I would be interested to know what kinds of dollars are available to assist with cleanup. Is there any way you can provide that information to us off-line?

[Christopher Hall]

Absolutely. It's in the order of hundreds of millions, but I will determine that number and submit that in writing.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Okay. I imagine reinsurance is in there as well.

On conventions for loading containers, we've been trying to find out if there are rules for where potentially combustible material is loaded in a stack of containers on a ship, and if there are rules that would have the ones most at risk of loss contain the least noxious elements that shouldn't be in the water. Are you aware if those rules exist?

[Christopher Hall]

Rules do exist—very detailed rules. Actually, it's the IMDG code. It's put out through the IMO. Canada subscribes to that document.

It's called the “International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code”. It documents every single hazardous substance with a UN number, and then has specific stowage requirements for that cargo as it relates to the quantity, how it is to be packaged, what it is allowed to be stored against or not allowed to be stored adjacent to and all of the relative positions as to where it should be in a ship.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What's the relationship between the Shipping Federation and Transport Canada? By “relationship”, I mean, do you talk and do you trade ideas? Are there rubs or gaps, in your opinion?

[Christopher Hall]

No. Actually, I would say we have an excellent working relationship with all levels of Transport Canada, from the minister right down through the various departments. We've had a long-standing, very solid relationship with Transport Canada. It's a very good working relationship.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do you find that there are conflicts between the economic and commercial realities of shippers, if you like, versus what advocates and maybe regulators are pushing for in terms of improved safety measures for the mariners, the vessels themselves and the environment?

[Christopher Hall]

I haven't seen any direct evidence of conflicts like that. No, I'm afraid I can't say so.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

All right.

Mr. Butterworth, in the time I have left, can you comment on what you know about the coordination of efforts to do cleanup along beaches? We get the sense there are a lot of very well-meaning organizations, but we're not sure if they're coordinated, if they're tripping over each other or if gaps exist in terms of the efforts to make the cleanup happen.

[Kevin Butterworth]

Yes. Thank you.

Since April 28, 2021, we've announced $9.5 million for our “Clean Coast, Clean Waters” initiative, specifically to tackle shoreline cleanup. It also includes derelict vessel removal from the north coast down to southern Vancouver Island.

We've also distributed funding: $2 million to the Songhees Development Corporation, an indigenous group down in the south of Vancouver Island; $7 million to the Small Ship Tour Operators Association of British Columbia; $3.5 million to the Wilderness Tourism Association in 2020 and $2.5 million in 2021; $2.5 million to the Coastal Restoration Society; and approximately $1.5 million to the Ocean Legacy Foundation.

This is all around—