Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was capelin.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Timothy Sargent  Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sylvain Vézina  Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Tony Blanchard  Regional Director General, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Adam Burns  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

2:55 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Timothy Sargent

Go ahead, Sylvain.

2:55 p.m.

Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Sylvain Vézina

I'd like to thank Mr. Sargent for his question.

The work required to assess a fish stock is quite extensive. Data is processed in the fall and after that, several data analyses and validations are done. The science assessment process involves researchers who validate the information. Therefore, it's a lengthy process that's done in advance so we have all the right information we need to properly assess the resource.

2:55 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

What would this look like for the impacts on the entire area? I know that the two weir fishers who are in Madame Desbiens' riding are our main topic of discussion here, but they are within a larger area. What would be the impacts?

In your opinion, Minister, would this provide the outcome that is intended to benefit those who are feeling that they are not able to fish the capelin they are seeking?

3 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

My understanding is that, for most of the recent past, May 1 has been an adequate start to enable the weir fishery to take place. Because of the ice in the river, the fish don't come before that period. In fact, capelin are fished in other parts of their habitat far later in May or even in June. If we were to move this date forward to April 1, my understanding is that most years the two weir fishers would still not be able to start any earlier than they have been historically on May 1. It does mean that, if there should be an unusually warm year when the ice has melted sooner, they would be able to go out and do their weir fishery before May 1 and after April 1.

3 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand all of the moving pieces, because I can appreciate that with climate change we're going to see continued changes to the patterns we're seeing in fisheries, and perhaps the way things have been done historically will no longer work.

I appreciate that willingness to always be re-evaluating, but I'm wondering about the approach being taken with the 4S area we're speaking about. I know that in British Columbia we have very specific regions that we look at, and I'm wondering if a more region-specific approach would be more appropriate for us to understand how to best have the fishers set up appropriately as climate change continues to occur.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thanks for that, and also for your comment that the department does try to be flexible and to recognize that when conditions change, there could be changes that would assist our fish harvesters. That's exactly why there's been so much focus on looking at this date.

In terms of a regional management, the weir fishery is quite specific in a specific area of the fish habitat, and I don't envision that it will impact or make changes to the rest of the capelin fishery. This would be for the two specific harvesters.

3 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Thank you.

I need to wrap up my time here, but how does this impact the licences that these fishers or others in the area receive? Are there any changes to the licences that need to be considered through this process?

3 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Not that I know of. This is really about the terms and conditions of the fishery itself.

I want to thank all of the committee members for taking time in your constituency week to pay attention to matters that are not your constituents', necessarily, and for your interest in this. The department has been very responsive to my request. Because this is a culturally significant fishery, albeit very minor in the grand scheme of capelin management, we're doing our best to address the requests of the fishers.

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We will now go to Mr. Small for five minutes or less, please.

April 13th, 2022 / 3 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here today and, in fact, to all of her team.

Minister, I've heard you talking about a framework for capelin management. Last year's assessment advisory committee was exactly a full month earlier than this year's. Would you consider a framework to be a process that works within consistent dates year to year?

3 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

We certainly endeavour to do that, Mr. Chair.

In fact, the work involved in this assessment, especially with respect to the weir fishery, is highly specialized. This year's assessment was impacted by the unexpected unavailability of the unique expertise required. The department is working to ensure that others are trained on this highly specialized science so that we won't have this situation again, but it did delay the delivery of the science assessments.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the minister and her team at what point the data was collected. I'm thinking that it was last summer during the various fisheries and that in fact there were no acoustic or trawl surveys done, so basically you're operating on fisherpersons' logbooks and observers' reports.

It seems to me that you've had this data in your hands for quite a long time. I don't understand why this is so late and why it's causing this fishery to be held back, when you said earlier that it's very insignificant. In 2020 and 2021, the quotas were set in 4RST at 9,300 tonnes each year and, from what I've heard, it's steady as it goes in terms of the stock in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. What do you have to say about that, Minister?

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

In the last stock assessment, conducted in March 2021, data related to bottom trawl catches and demersal fish diet were presented for the first time. This year's stock assessment actually integrates new sets of data into its analysis. That is set to begin on April 20.

The officials here with me today can of course provide more detail on the history of the science in this fishery and the importance of this year's data from next week's assessment, because it does bring in some new streams of information to try to make the analysis as accurate and effective as possible.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister if she thinks that maybe the capelin might be over-foraged. We've heard the expression “forage fish” quite a bit, and we've seen herring in the Pacific and in Atlantic Canada and a mackerel fishery in Atlantic Canada being shut down this year. Are we on the brink of a decision like that for the Gulf of St. Lawrence? Is that what this is all about?

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thanks for the question.

I think what this is all about is one MP working on behalf of their constituents to get an opening that is outside of the frame of this fishery. We're working to find a way to be more flexible in the opening for that particular heritage fishery. That's what this is about, and the total allowable catch for this fishery will be available soon, within two weeks. I expect to make it public at that time.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Given the fact that it's insignificant and stocks are stable, there's really not much reason to stop these fishermen from going ahead right now, wouldn't you say?

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

I would say, Mr. Chair, that it is very important that we recognize that the framework for fishing be respected, because there are literally thousands of people whose lives and livelihoods depend on the fishery. There are hundreds of different stocks at different levels of vulnerability in different fishing areas, and the way to ensure that the maximum economic benefit for individual harvesters and their communities is gained while the long-term conservation, viability and health of the stock are not impacted is to have a framework for each fishery.

It is very important that such a framework be respected by the fish harvesters and that there not be efforts to try to poke holes in it and say, “Here's a reason why it doesn't count for me, and I want to do my own thing.” If that's done in one place, Mr. Small, that will be done in your area as well, and you can see the logic of how that is not a good thing for the fishers, for the fish or for the management approach.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

No, you've gone way over, actually, Mr. Small.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing. It's always good to see you.

What's happening right now? Do we know what's going on with the capelin? Are they spawning at this moment?

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

As far as I know, they're not. It's still iced up in the weir fishers area, but I may be a couple of days out of date, and I'll ask the regional experts to add to that answer.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Yes, please.

3:10 p.m.

Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Sylvain Vézina

I'd like to add that my team was in contact with the fishers on Sunday, and they indicated that the capelin had not yet arrived in the area and had not yet begun to roll in. I have not heard anything since Sunday, though.