Fisheries Committee on Oct. 25th, 2022

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you for that, Ms. Mulock.

The next question I have will be very quick. It's for each of you. I know you'll have to give a short answer.

When we're talking about the North Atlantic right whale, we're talking about a lot of things, but in particular the MMPA.

I wonder if each of you can speak to what it would mean if Canada didn't have access to the American market for your industry?

We can start with Ms. Mulock, go to Mr. Fleck and so forth.

[Heather Mulock]

I can't even think of a word. It would honestly cripple Atlantic Canada if we were excluded from snow crab and lobster in our U.S. market. They're still our primary importer, followed by China. It's always great to diversify our markets but we're not there yet. This would have dire consequences to the entirety of Atlantic Canada.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.

I think we probably have a little time to go around the horn with Mr. Fleck.

[Daniel J. Fleck]

My short answer to that is it would be devastating.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Let's go to the next person.

[Shawn Muise]

I'd like to say the same. I don't want to imagine not having the American market.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Finally, let's go to Mr. Haché.

[Robert Haché]

We export over 70% of our crab to the States. It's obvious that we need that market.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thanks, Mr. Kelloway.

Thank you to Mr. Haché, Mr. Fleck, Mr. Muise and Ms. Mulock for your presentations here at committee today and for sharing your knowledge with us.

We're going to recess for a minute now to change out the panellists. We'll be back very quickly. We do have a small bit of committee business to do right at the end.

We'll recess for a couple of minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'd like to welcome our second panel of witnesses.

Representing the Maritime Fishermen's Union, we have with us Martin Mallet, executive director, and Mathieu Noël, director of Opilio. Representing the Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie, we have Jean Côté, scientific director.

Thank you for taking the time to be with us today. You will each have up to five minutes for an opening statement.

I invite Mr. Mallet and Mr. Noël to begin with their joint statement, please, for five minutes or less.

[Martin Mallet, Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the committee members for allowing us the opportunity to present today.

My name is Martin Mallet. I'm the executive director at the MFU. As you just mentioned, I am accompanied today by Mathieu Noël, who in recent years has been our lead on the right whales file, as well as being our snow crab fisheries coordinator.

I'll do my brief introduction in French.

The Maritime Fishermen's Union, or MFU, is an organization that represents more than 1,300 owner-operator inshore fish harvesters in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. Since is foundation in 1977, the MFU's mission has been to represent, promote and defend the interests of the inshore fishers of the Maritimes and their communities.

Concerning the North Atlantic right whale, in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence, our organization was in the forefront of the crisis that struck our industry a few years ago, in 2017. That year, the snow crab fishing industry was faced with large numbers of deaths and entanglements of right whales.

The years that followed were difficult for our industry, especially in 2018, when the first protection measures were put in place without the industry really being consulted. Fortunately, after that, there was some reconciliation among all the actors from the industry, science, and management at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, so they were able to work together toward a common goal: to come up with effective measures for protecting right whales while allowing for coexistence between whales and fishers.

It goes without saying that the measures to protect the right whales has had a significant impact on the conduct of inshore fisheries since 2018, particularly for the snow crab fishery, but also for the lobster fishery. However, generally speaking, those measures have had a positive effect on protecting the whales, and the facts speak for themselves. For several years, we have had no deaths or major entanglements in the gulf and in eastern Canada. We believe the work must now focus on how to optimize those measures in order to reduce their impact on fishing operations. We now have some recommendations to make in this regard.

First, we have to be extremely cautious in implementing additional protection measures, so as not to create new risks for either the whales or the industry. For example, the idea of adding weak links to lobster and crab fishing ropes might create major problems involving the loss of fishing gear and thus contribute to the ghost gear problem. In the case of the lobster fishery, it is important to consider that the dynamic inshore closure protocol seems to be working well and that adding these kinds of measures would not necessarily increase protection for the whales. On the contrary, it might increase the risk of entanglement associated with lost gear.

Second, it is very important to consider that the whale protection measures only have an effect when there is a real risk of interaction between the whales and the fishery. The report by Lyne Morissette published in 2022 highlights the critical period during the crab fishery when the risk of interaction is highest. It is a period that generally begins in late May, when the whales arrive in the gulf in large numbers. There is one important fact to note: the more impact the measures have on slowing the crab fishery, which is a quota fishery, the longer the fishing season will last, thus extending the period of overlap between the presence of fishing gear in the gulf and the arrival of the whales in the sector. This means that if we want to continue to improve the protection for this species, it is essential to ensure that management measures are improved in order to minimize their repercussions on the conduct and length of the fishing season, particularly at the beginning of the season.

Third, we have to recognize that certain measures in place have a negative impact on the fishery without offering any real protection for the whales. The first is the seasonal closure protocol, where fishing grounds are closed seasonally even if there may no longer be any whales there, and the second is the closings with acoustic buoys, where more precise acoustic buoys are used to close fishing grounds where, once again, there may no longer be any whales there.

Fourth, Canada has to adopt a communication strategy on the international scene regarding this issue. We have a fine story to tell in connection with our efforts to have the fishing industry and right whales coexist here in Canada. Let's talk about it, and let's respond quickly to the attacks from certain international NGOs, as was the case a few weeks ago with the announcement by Seafood Watch in the United States disparaging our lobster fishery. Our international markets depend on maintaining our good reputation concerning our work on coexisting with the whales.

Thank you. We will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Côté for five minutes or less, please.

[Jean Côté, Scientific Director, Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du Sud de la Gaspésie]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, members of the committee. Thank you for the time you are allowing me.

My name is Jean Côté. I have been the scientific director of the Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du Sud de la Gaspésie, the RPPSG, since 2010. I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in marine biology from the Université Laval. Since 2017, I have been working on the protection of right whales in the Atlantic and on implementing measures to protect this endangered species.

The lobster fishers of Gaspésie fish in an area between 20 fathoms in depth and the coast is less than a kilometre away. To date, they have never observed right whales in these shallow depths. However, implementing measures to protect right whales and the impact of the lobster fishery on this species present a fundamental problem for our organization. With the implementation of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the MMPA, by the United States, which determines the status of a country to be able to export to the American market, Canada must put measures in place to protect right whales that are equivalent to those in the United States. In addition, a single right whale death caused by a fishing trap or by ropes could cause those markets to be closed, and this would have immediate consequences for fishers, for whom it would be impossible to sell their catches to the processing plants, which are oriented mainly to the United States, as my colleagues said earlier.

In spite of the implementation of existing protection measures that are superior to those in the United States, identification of ropes, and the absence of whales in the lobster fishers' fishing grounds in Gaspésie, the members of our organization do not know whether they will lose access to the American market if there is a right whale death caused by a Canadian fishing trap or ropes elsewhere in the Atlantic.

In addition, right whale protection measures implemented by Canada can have major socioeconomic repercussions. In 2018, the application of right whale protection measures by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which were initially to be for the snow crab fishery in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, caused the closure of the lobster fishery in Gaspésie for 67 members of our organization when one whale was seen 18 kilometres offshore. The small RCM of Rocher-Percé then suffered a loss of indirect economic benefits amounting to several million dollars. As well, 67 fishers who were captains and owners lost three weeks' income and more than 100 members of seasonal crews were at risk of not accumulating the necessary number of weeks to be able to claim employment insurance. As a result of the speedy reaction by the province of Quebec and the Regroupement itself in response to this urgent situation, the helpers were able, through a vocational training program, to get the number of weeks needed to live from one season to the next. However, none of the 67 fishers received compensation for the losses suffered, which were estimated at over $2 million. The next year, fortunately, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans agreed to put different measures in place for the snow crab fishers and lobster fishers in Gaspésie by recognizing the exclusion areas we are all familiar with below the 20‑fathom depth line, and this is an improvement. As well, just now, Mr. Mallet too acknowledged [technical difficulties].

The RPPSG has implemented a whale watching program in the inshore areas under 20 fathoms. We are actively engaged in researching modifications to fishing gear with low breaking-strength links.

We are also working on expanding our knowledge of right whales with the renowned expert everyone is talking about, Lyne Morissette [technical difficulties]. We have tested various mechanisms to allow the whales to free themselves if they become entangled.

We do believe that there is no single solution to address the unique features of each of the fisheries. In addition, the testing we want to do is complicated because of the limited availability and quantity of the gear, such as weak-link ropes [technical difficulties].

I think there is still a lot of work to do to find solutions that reflect the reality of the various fisheries that use fishing traps everywhere in the Atlantic. We have seen some excellent examples [technical difficulties].

If the solutions currently being considered were put in place by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans starting in 2023, the manufacturers and suppliers would not be able to supply all the fishers with the necessary gear. In addition, I think other solutions need to be tested that address the unique features of the terrain and the specific fishery.

We at the RPPSG recommend that the DFO put different measures in place.

First, a program should be created to protect fishers' and helpers' income, in the event that the fishery is closed because of the presence of a right whale and the American markets are closed after the death of a right whale caused by Canadian traps or ropes located very far from our own fishery.

We think it is important to conduct a socioeconomic impact study in relation to the implementation of right whale protection measures and to put measures in place to mitigate the consequences that will have on the fishery sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Côté. We've gone well over the five-minute mark. I'll have to ask you to stop there so we can get to the questioning.

We'll start off with Mr. Small, for six minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Côté. Are any threats of market closures coming as a result of the recent USMCA negotiated by Minister Freeland? Are we being held hostage here, do you think?

[Jean Côté]

I would say yes. I would say we are a hostage in that. You're right.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Would you like to elaborate on that?

[Jean Côté]

The point is that it seems as though we are all in the same basket. The reality is different from one fishery to another, and everything seems to be depending on the U.S. deciding whether or not all the fisheries will be good. I must say that, at this point, we're not sure what they will do, so it's hard to argue more than that.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Are you satisfied with the department's response to the recent listing of lobster and crab from Atlantic Canada by the aquarium association? Are you satisfied?

[Jean Côté]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I meant Seafood Watch. I'm sorry.

Are you happy—

[Jean Côté]

I think they're completely unhappy.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

—with the minister's response?

[Jean Côté]

Oh. You mean with the minister's response.