Fisheries Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Good morning, everyone. I'm now ready to start the meeting.

I want to welcome everybody to meeting number four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

I ask everybody today to be a bit patient, because we're doing it in a hybrid format. I've got a screen in front of me with people who are doing it online and we have committee members here in the committee room. If anybody is saying something, try to say it really slowly for translation and so we can hear it on the computer.

I'm not going to go through the full—

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting a French translation on my English service. I'm not sure if anybody else is getting that as well.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's the same for me too, Mr. Chair. It's not working either in French or English.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll take a moment and get that checked out before we go any further.

How is it now?

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I still have the same issue, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

It's in French, even though you have English selected.

We'll let the individual staff check on that to make sure it gets corrected. We certainly don't want to continue unless we can participate fully.

Serge, are you hearing it in French now?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, I can hear the French interpretation, but the problem is that you can still hear it even when you've disabled that option.

We still hear the interpretation.

I hear it sometimes when I use the English channel, but not always. The same is true when I use the French channel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I think everything is straightened out. We will continue.

For the benefit of those joining by Zoom, and I know you can see everybody on your screen who is doing that, I'll let you know who is here in the actual committee room. We have Mr. Morrissey, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Zimmer, Mr. Small and Ms. Barron. Everybody else is by Zoom.

I want to say to everybody that to some extent, at the last meeting we held, there was a bit of confusion as we went through the motions. I think part of that is when you're doing an amendment and then a subamendment to the amendment and a subamendment to the sub, it's a bit hard to keep it straight. I do apologize if it was confusing. If people could keep that in mind, we could deal with a subamendment to an amendment and if there's another subamendment to that, let's do it afterwards. Trying to keep it all in a regular flow takes a bit of coordination at this end. If everybody could co-operate in that regard, I would appreciate it.

As I said at the start, I'm not going to read through all of the normal opening remarks. We all know about the requirements for COVID, the spacing, the masking and the speaking and everything else. I want to get down to business right away so we can get as much done as we can in our time frame.

I would just let everybody know that when we finished up at the last meeting, we were actually at the end of a motion by Mr. Arnold. He had spoken extensively to the motion. As well, Mr. Morrissey had spoken to that particular motion. It was on DFO scientific studies and advice.

Mr. Arnold, I don't know if you were going to respond to Mr. Morrissey at that particular time, when we adjourned. If you were, I'll leave that up to you.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I don't know if you have a speaking list for others. I had no direct response to Mr. Morrissey, other than, if they had amendments to the motion, they've had time to put those forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

All right.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Based on having a couple of days to think about it, I do have an amendment to Mr. Arnold's motion that I'd like to put forward, if I could, please. This will be provided to the clerk right away for distribution, and I believe in both languages.

The amendment would add “and how the Department applies this science in its decision making”, so that the amended motion would read as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of at least six meetings to examine how the Department of Fisheries and Oceans prioritizes, resources and develops scientific studies and advice, and how the Department applies this science in its decision making; and that the committee call witnesses including the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, senior department officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and persons who have directly contributed to the department’s science and science processes to testify; that the committee hear from no fewer than 20 witnesses; and that the committee report its conclusions and recommendations to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Just for a quick clarification, I haven't seen it yet, but you're proposing an addition and no deletion of anything that's in the current motion. Is that correct?

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

No, that's not correct, Mr. Perkins. The following would come out of the original text: “and how the minister applies data and advice provided by the department and other government departments to ministerial decisions”. The original motion puts the focus entirely on the minister, whereas I think it would be far more useful for us to determine what the department does, how it structures its studies and how it's used.

There are probably infinitely more circumstances where the department will make decisions on regulations or other matters, perhaps even in advice to the minister, but there are many other instances where the department will employ science. I think it's worth our while to find out what that process is, because it will cover a lot more ground than the wording in the original motion suggests.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I would support the motion as it was initially brought forward, with the wording exactly as we understood it to be before today. I would support that it remains as is. I would not support the amendment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

All right. Seeing no more interventions on the proposed amendment, Tina, could we do a recorded vote, please?

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We'll now go to the motion in its original form. Tina, could we do a recorded vote on the motion as it stands, please?

Ms. Barron.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to put forward an amendment to the motion as it stands. Am I able to do that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Can I do that right now? Thank you very much.

There is an amendment that is being circulated, at least that's my understanding. The proposed amendment reads:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of at least six meetings to examine how the Department of Fisheries and Oceans prioritizes, resources and develops scientific studies and advice for the department, how the results of scientific study are communicated to the Minister and Canadians—,

The remainder of the motion is exactly as it read before. I can continue reading if that's helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

No, I think if we can see the copy of that, we know exactly what you're omitting and what you're adding.

When the clerk tells me she has it, I'll know everybody else has it as well.

Mr. Arnold, you wanted to speak.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I support this amendment from the NDP member. I believe it will add clarity and information that we'll gather through this study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Can we have a two or three-minute recess, please, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Can we make it as short as possible, because we'd like to get through a lot today, and of course, with Zoom and in person, it makes it difficult to stay on time.

I'll allow a short recess.