Evidence of meeting #41 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Jean-Yves Savaria Regional Director of Science, Québec, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
Yes, the temperatures you noted are correct. In some years, it is not possible to conduct the surveys at the right temperatures.
To ensure that we take the samples at the right time, we rely on analysis of fish gonad samples that have been taken to assess spawning during the year. When those samples indicate that it is not the spawning period, the data gathered is simply removed from our analysis for the current year.
That said, since the data is collected every year, we have time series that are long enough to serve as a basis for our analyses, even if we are occasionally unable to conduct the surveys because of the temperature.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Half of the data is gone because you used catch samples, and they're no longer there. The heat mapping work that we've done, looking at the Gulf of St. Lawrence where you do this, shows that on average it's 8°C and sometimes it's as cold as 6°C when you go out. You're telling me that when you did the science in the last 10 years, those years are eliminated.
How many years of science when it was in the 9°C to 12°C sample size do you have in making this decision that the spawning biomass is too small?
5 p.m.
Regional Director of Science, Québec, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't have information about the specific years for which we did the sampling with me, but I can guarantee you that almost all were successful.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you for this.
I'll start by asking a question of both of the officials. Does DFO have stock assessments in place for the mackerel stocks that have been closed to harvest?
5 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. We will be having stock assessment science advice provided to the department in the first quarter of 2023.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
How recent is the information used in that assessment?
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Perhaps Jean-Yves could speak to the information that's coming from that. I haven't seen it yet.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I'm running short of time.
I would ask DFO if they have stock rebuilding plans in place for the mackerel stocks that have been closed. They can answer in writing.
I'd also ask if DFO resources and actions have been prioritized and increased to restore mackerel stocks closed to harvest by the moratorium.
I think I'm out of time. Oh, I have one minute left.
Are any of the answers to those questions available now?
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sure. I can speak to the rebuilding plan.
We do have one in place. In fact, we also do have a rebuilding plan working group with DFO officials, fisheries management, science, as well as industry, other harvesters and first nations. We are looking at that rebuilding plan.
Unfortunately, the objectives to date haven't been met and we haven't seen the rebuilding that we had hoped for initially, so there is a meeting next month with this working group with industry to develop better objectives for that rebuilding plan.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Are there indications of why the rebuilding plan has failed?
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indications point to overfishing as the dominant factor in why it hasn't rebuilt yet.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say so, yes.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think there could be some seal aspects to this and there could be some other from larger predators in the food web.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold. You were a few seconds over, but that's okay.
We will now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less, please.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I think we will give the first question to Mr. Kelloway.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you, Mr. Hardie, for that.
I have just one question. In the last session, MP Small mentioned that the U.S.A. increased its TAC by 1,000 tonnes. Can you speak to whether or not that has happened?
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That was something that was just brought to my attention as we came into this session this afternoon. I will have to go back and verify that information.
I do know that I personally and other senior officials within the department have engaged the United States at senior levels as recently as last month. Two months ago the minister wrote to her counterpart at NOAA, again pressing the case. We would like to see a formal bilateral relationship to manage this fishery.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Kelloway. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Along that same line, we have heard testimony this evening that it's almost a zero sum game. If we don't catch them, the Americans will.
When you are speaking about some sort of a management arrangement with the United States, are you maybe seeking some different arrangement so that in fact stocks can be rebuilt without one partner poaching from the other?
5:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think that's exactly what we would be hoping for, sir. It is a model that we use with the United States on other stocks on the Georges Bank, groundfish stocks, as well as on the west coast with respect to some groundfish and salmon as well.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay. There would be some questions, I suppose, about how it came to be as it is right now, but we will leave that for the time being.
It was 30 years ago on July 2 that the cod moratorium was put in place. We have had 30 years to try to rebuild those stocks, but in evidence in past hearings we have heard that, again, they are not seeing the large fish. There are disagreements, of course, with the fishers about the state of the cod stock, but the fact is that 30 years later, the DFO isn't necessarily satisfied that we have brought our cod back to abundance. Now it appears we're seeing the same sort of thing with mackerel.
Is that a fair assessment at this point?