Fisheries Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

We also heard some testimony earlier in the week that double breakwaters were found to be very effective. The first breakwater took the waves down quite a bit, and then the second breakwater could handle it. As we try to become more resilient, how much would building that proper type of breakwater drive up the cost of building?

[Adam Burns]

First, certainly none of us are engineers who have that expertise to know, in a given harbour's circumstance, whether the approach you're referring to would have benefit. The climate resilience piece, which would include that, is something that we'll be asking the engineers developing the rehabilitation plans to build into the plans. That's something that will be looked at through that process that will be undertaken over the coming months.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You mentioned earlier that the funding there now is just an initial amount of money to try to get things up and running for the upcoming season. Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

Yes. That's right. The purpose of that initial investment is the immediate dredging and repair costs as well as engineering assessments to get a better understanding of any additional repairs that will be needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Small, you're right on the mark. Thank you for ending right on that mark. It's the first time yet.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please, to finish up.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of the damage that was done, we certainly heard from a lot of the witnesses that the structures that have been around for awhile were overwhelmed by the weather we had during hurricane Fiona. I'm just wondering if you've made the observations, or if your staff have, or if perhaps you have some oceanographic science, as to whether the weather is coming at us from a different direction now. Are we dealing with changes in the currents, for instance, that have driven to other areas some of the species that the fishers fish?

I'm just wondering if in your assessment and rebuilding of some of the small craft harbours you will need to do them substantially differently because, as I said, the currents and the weather are changing on us.

[Adam Burns]

Certainly, building in all of the elements related to climate resilience is something that we'll be aiming to do as we develop the repair plans for the harbours that are most severely impacted.

In terms of an answer to the other question, I don't have an answer for you on that today.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I know that came out of left field. However, that said, are you in a position...do you have the resources to do the kind of assessment of what the future might look like?

Fiona's track appeared to be quite different from what you've seen in the past. I guess it would be helpful to know if that's what the future looks like, or if something else is going to be taking place that will make a lot of the good work you're trying to do now not work so well if the conditions change on you again.

[Stephanie Hopper]

If I may, when I referenced the different climate adaptation tools that are being used and how we're adapting them.... As we're doing our planning and doing the different geological assessments and such, we draw upon experts who take into consideration the different changes to allow for that and to better predict the model to allow...so that something that always existed in the past needs to be rethought in terms of being able to foresee different future events.

That's all part of how we're working to adapt those different tools that our engineering teams are involved in on a daily basis.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

In some of our earlier testimony, I recall Mr. Perkins mentioning that he has quite a number of small craft harbours up and down his coast of South Shore—St. Margarets. If this little craft harbour isn't picturesque enough for you, go a few miles down the road and there's another one.

That begs the question, and it came up in the 2019 report on small craft harbours—there are over 800 serving the fishing communities now—do we need to think about rationalizing them or should we try to fix them all? Who would make that call?

This is your “get off the hook” subsidiary question here.

[Stephanie Hopper]

We currently have 973 small craft harbours across the country. A certain number are deemed to be core and essential to the commercial fishing industry. Others would fall in the category of recreational or, perhaps, non-essential, whether it's by number or whether they can go to proximity.

The divestiture program is a part of the small craft harbours program. When we are determining or doing our planning, that's certainly a consideration but, again, depending on where it is in the country—if there are closer neighbouring harbours to be able to accommodate such fishers—and the state of repair for a certain harbour, those are all taken under consideration when determinations are made on the future of said harbour.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You're speaking in the passive voice. Who makes the determination?

Who would decide if a small craft harbour is beyond repair and to not make the investment?

[Stephanie Hopper]

We work closely with our engineering teams, who are in the position to have the skill to assess the state of said asset and to determine whether or not its future use...and what would be required, either from a funding perspective or how that would be serving the community in the future as well. Our engineering and our regional teams are there working, again, with our harbour authorities on a day-to-day basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

There are only four seconds left, so that won't give you much time to ask a question. You'd probably try to sneak it in, only before I gave you the signal you were done.

I want to say thank you to the officials for appearing either in person or by video conference with the committee today, for sharing your knowledge and for answering the many questions. I think some of you are back on Friday when the minister appears on the supplementary estimates at committee, so we'll welcome you back again.

I will say one thing to Ms. Hopper, because she mentioned it in her testimony, about the dredging. On the east coast, or the eastern part of Newfoundland, they usually let a standing offer go out, and that covers the whole eastern portion of the province. One contractor gets it, but he has to be able to provide that service. He'll move from one harbour to another as he's needed to do the dredging. They do it on a standing offer. I think it might be...there's a limit on it. There might be $240,000 in total, but he'll do all the dredging until that amount of money runs out, and then it's up to them if they want to reassign it or not. It seems to work quite well, because you're guaranteed to get your dredging done when it's needed or before the fishing season starts.

Again, I thought I'd add that bit of information. I think it's put out through Public Works Canada, which looks after the tendering process, if I'm not mistaken.

Again, thank you everyone for another fantastic meeting.

Go ahead, Madame Desbiens.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, the witness who was unable to join us by video conference, Mr. Arseneau, offers to send his testimony to all members of the committee. In addition, if we wish to ask him questions in writing, he can answer them in writing. That is what I propose the committee do, if that is appropriate.

I thank the interpreters again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, thank you for that.

Hopefully, if anyone has a question for them, they'll send it or get the email address or the contact to send it out and get an answer back.

The meeting is adjourned.