Fisheries Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

To tell you the truth, I can name almost all the harbours in my region that are experiencing problems and for which, every year since I was elected in 2015, I have had to call your department to have dredging done at the last minute. We all know what these ports are. I am sure you also know the location of all the ones that need dredging every year. Why do you wait until the last minute to make these decisions?

As you said earlier, we can let the harbour authorities do this work, up to a certain amount. I thought it was $90,000, but you said $80,000. Why not let the harbour authorities do this work, if you don't have the time to do it or if you have other small craft harbour projects to deal with?

[Stephanie Hopper]

We are working closely with the harbour authorities to be able to run a program while ensuring the safety of our harbour users. Certainly, for dredging, it's a lot of coordination. We want to make sure that all our harbours are ready for the opening of the fishery and that it is done safely.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I understand, Ms. Hopper, but we already know which ports need dredging every year. I can name a few: Grande-Anse, Pointe-Verte, Petit-Rocher and Pigeon Hill. Why do you always wait until the last minute, at the opening of the season, to do this work, when it could be done a little in advance? I know there's ice sometimes, but why not plan them and do them in advance?

Also, why not let the harbour authorities do the work using the available contractors? I would like you to give me a reason why you can't let them do this work. I understand that there are rules to follow, and I'm sure you're with them on this. I have been able to follow several projects that these administrations have carried out and that you have approved. Why don't you make more use of that, which could free up your resources for other purposes?

[Stephanie Hopper]

We work closely with the harbour authorities to coordinate dredging during the spring fishing season. The weather plays a role in this process, especially in assessing the quantities to be dredged. All of these factors have a significant effect on the coordination and timing of the spring dredging.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like to get a clarification, just to make sure I understood correctly. You said that up to $80,000, the harbour authorities can issue the calls for bids themselves, get one, two or three price estimates and choose the most advantageous. Does it still work that way?

[Stephanie Hopper]

Yes, but it depends on the scope of the work to be done. If the project is suitable, we can allow harbour authorities to undertake the work themselves, up to a maximum of $80,000. Of course, in addition to the size of the project, all other conditions must be met, the necessary environmental approvals and permits must be obtained, and there must be no problems from the point of view of consultation with indigenous peoples.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Here again, as I said earlier—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to ask you where the main obstacle to greater predictability lies. I agree with my colleague Mr. Cormier on this point. On the ground, there are obviously recurring problems, season after season. I see it in L'Isle-aux-Coudres: every year, the wharf silts up and the dredging team intervenes. The problem is sometimes exacerbated by storms and then the volume of sand to be dredged has to be assessed, but nevertheless we know that the problem of silting comes back every year.

What can be done to create more predictability in the face of these kinds of recurring problems? Many things are unpredictable in climate change, but some things can be predicted and could be managed more effectively and functionally for people on the ground. It would put their minds at ease. Fishers would know that the work is being done.

I am not criticizing you; I just want to know what can be done to increase the predictability of these recurring activities.

[Adam Burns]

I will answer your question first, and then I will let Ms. Hopper answer in turn.

In reality, every year there are many things we don't know. For example, the amount of sand to be dredged at a particular small craft harbour varies from year to year. We can, of course, anticipate that dredging will be required. However, given the limited number of companies offering this service, we must make annual assessments and put a plan in place to ensure that all small craft harbours will be functional and offer all the services necessary for fishers to use them.

[Stephanie Hopper]

We've also started to put some tools in place, like standing offers for contractors, so they can more easily respond to emergencies. That's one of the tools we use.

We are very aware of the complexity of the situation. We work closely with the port authorities. They give us feedback from previous seasons and this helps us to better anticipate the needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens. That was a little bit over, but not too bad.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

A few of our witnesses also brought up the importance of science as we move forward and of developing better weather-resilient, extreme weather-resilient infrastructure and adapting it as required based on changes we're seeing within our oceans, based on the many impacts of the climate crisis.

I wonder if you could speak a little bit to what you're doing to try to fill some of the gaps we're currently seeing, some of the deferring science or data that is being acquired and how that information is being integrated into the steps moving forward on rebuilding for more climate-resilient infrastructure.

[Adam Burns]

Clearly Canada is not alone in feeling the impacts of climate change and of the severe weather events that many jurisdictions have faced in recent years. Certainly we will be looking globally as well to best practices and, as I mentioned, as engineers develop plans for rehabilitating the damaged harbours, we will be looking at their building into those best practices around climate resilience.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

How about local and indigenous knowledge? How is that being integrated?

[Stephanie Hopper]

That's part of the discussions and communications we have with our harbour authorities. A lot of those include indigenous participants and members. That is taken into account. All the different information is taken into account and that will continue as we go forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 35 seconds.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'll give them back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

That's perfect. She has given up the 35 seconds because she went a little bit over last time. That should be an example to members who do go over time frequently.

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please. The clock is running.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay. The clock is running. Thank you.

I just want to follow up a little more on my last question, which was on the severity of the damage to the older wharves. Small craft harbours in my area have told me that in southwest Nova they need $600 million. We are a long way from that.

Are small craft harbours looking at building differently—I don't like the term “building back better”—to try to build stronger, more resilient infrastructure, with stronger types of structures than our traditional wooden ones? I see that on the west coast they do a lot of steel pylons and floatable concrete decks and that kind of thing.

[Adam Burns]

Certainly, as I mentioned, one of the key things we're asking in terms of the rehabilitation plans that will be put in place over the coming months is that climate resilience be built into that. One hundred per cent we'll be looking to what seems to be working on the west coast as well as internationally. We'll also certainly be seeking the local knowledge that might further benefit the development of those climate-resilient plans.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It would probably be tough to provide a number here, so perhaps you can provide it in writing later. What would be adequate ongoing financing for the A-base funding in order to ensure that small craft harbour wharfs can have long-term capital maintenance planning? We don't seem to have that right now. It's been identified through a couple of reports.

[Adam Burns]

As I mentioned, we're focused right now on assessing the cost of the damage from hurricane Fiona and putting in place plans to get those wharves that have been severely impacted back online, if you will. To further answer your question, I think we'd need to provide something in writing.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

This will go to Mr. Burns or Ms. Hopper.

We've heard testimony in this study so far that a lot of divested property out there has been damaged or destroyed. What's your take on that? Will those harbours be completely left out in the cold, or will you step in to help them out?

[Adam Burns]

That would be a case-specific question. What I can say is that there is the broader disaster relief funding that goes to the provinces. In addition to that, and again, this would be entirely case-specific and I'm not the expert to speak to that, there is the other $200 million from the Fiona relief fund—again, it depends on case specifics, so I don't want to mislead you—which I suppose could also be a pathway.