Fisheries Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I now call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 45 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022.

Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For interpretation for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of the floor, English or French. For those in the room, of course, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Please address all comments through the chair.

Finally, I remind you that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting. One witness hasn't joined yet and that test will be done if they do join.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on October 4, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of the impacts of climate change.

I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses. Representing the Fish, Food and Allied Workers—Unifor, we have Sherry Glynn, the inshore representative. Representing the Prince Edward Island Aquaculture Alliance is Mr. Peter Warris, director of projects and industry liaison.

Thank you for taking the time to appear today. You will each have up to five minutes for an opening statement.

I invite Ms. Glynn to begin, please.

[Sherry Glynn, Inshore Representative, Fish, Food and Allied Workers - Unifor]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On behalf of over 13,000 of our members from Newfoundland and Labrador, thank you for the opportunity to address the honourable members today.

The Fish, Food and Allied Workers union represents every inshore harvester in our province, encompassing approximately 3,000 owner-operator enterprises and their crews. Our scope of membership also includes workers in fish processing plants, marine transportation, metal fabrication, hospitality and brewing across the province.

FFAW acknowledges and appreciates Prime Minister Trudeau’s visit to the community of Port aux Basques to see first-hand the level of destruction from hurricane Fiona, and we welcome the announcement of the $300 million recovery fund for impacted Atlantic Canadians.

This fund, to be distributed over two years to assist with the rebuilding of federal and community infrastructure in P.E.I., Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, will be quickly exhausted given the scale of repair and replacement required across all three provinces.

In addition, as climate change continues to make ocean conditions and the nature of storm systems increasingly volatile, coastal infrastructure must not only be repaired but improved upon to withstand future challenges. Due to the time-sensitive nature of our industry, the uncertainty of the timelines for completing this work is of great concern.

In the hours and days following Fiona, our union began getting reports from harvesters in Burgeo, La Poile, Rose Blanche, Fox Roost, Port aux Basques, and all the other communities on the southwest coast, about the degree of destruction that was happening in their areas. We started talking to the provincial Department of Justice and Public Safety, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency about compensation plans and application forms.

Just one week after the storm, we were on the ground in the affected communities to begin the process of documenting losses and applying for compensation. In total, we are assisting 37 harvesters through the application process of the disaster financial assistance arrangements program. Those 37 harvesters have lost almost 40 stages, 30 wharves, eight slipways and three fishing vessels. Those stages were filled with lobster pots, halibut and cod trawl, nets, deep freezes, haulers, generators, grapnels, rope, floats and everything else needed to operate the fishing enterprise.

With the fishing season just a handful of months away, harvesters are facing serious questions, not the least of which is regarding the financial burden of rebuilding: Where will the money come from? Will it come in time? Where and how will they rebuild? Fishing infrastructure is naturally along the shoreline, but harvesters are wondering how to rebuild in a way that makes their infrastructure more resilient. In some cases, the shoreline itself has changed significantly, making it impossible to rebuild in the same location.

Harvesters are concerned about the impact that the storm will have on their lobster fishery next season. As DFO pointed out in their infamous tweet, lobsters were hurled ashore during the storm. The damage done to the ocean bottom from wave energy and sedimentation is largely unknown at this point. In addition, hundreds of pots and nets were swept out to sea, and harvesters are concerned about the impact of this lost gear on fish resources.

The FFAW is calling on the federal government to support the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in recovering eligible expenses associated with damages and to provide compensation specific to the fishing sector to ensure that professional assets are restored for the 2023 season. These 37 licence-holders and enterprises represent millions of dollars in revenue to a very rural and resource-dependent region of our province.

In recent years, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has invested millions of dollars in removal of lost and derelict gear throughout Atlantic Canada. Our union has proudly contributed to this initiative. We recommend that investments in marine debris and gear removal be scaled up to swiftly remove lost gear from the marine ecosystem.

A lot of uncertainty remains months after Fiona struck. However, a couple of things are clear: first, disaster relief programs need to be at the ready and responsive to the needs of the fishing industry; second, the federal government needs to invest in new, storm-resilient infrastructure like breakwaters and reinforced wharves.

The time to act is now. The FFAW is positioned and prepared to expedite consultation on support programs and work with government to facilitate delivery of financial assistance.

Make no mistake: Without immediate concentrated economic support from all levels of government, the fishing industry on the southwest coast of the island is in jeopardy.

I thank you for your time and attention to this really important issue this afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Warris for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Peter Warris, Director, Projects and Industry Liaison, Prince Edward Island Aquaculture Alliance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to everyone here for the opportunity to speak today.

My name is Peter Warris. I'm the director of projects and industry liaison with the P.E.I aquaculture industry.

Briefly, the aquaculture industry on P.E.I is a farming industry that produces seafood. It's not a fishery. That's a key difference I want to highlight. P.E.I is the largest mussel producer in North America. It's the largest oyster producer on the eastern shore of Canada.

Our farmers have invested thousands of dollars in infrastructure for their leases, which cannot be removed prior to this type of storm. There are hundreds of lines and thousands of cages or stocks on a farm. They can only be sunk to get them out of the way of this kind of weather. Obviously, the animals that they are farming need to remain in the water in order to survive.

Estimates for the damages to the aquaculture industry on P.E.I include the following: mortality and loss of market-ready shellfish, which are going to cause immediate product shortages, reduced exports and loss of income to the harvesters; loss of mussel and oyster seed, which are the juvenile animals that are our livestock for the next two to four years, and therefore the impacts are going to be carried forward and affect exports and potentially market shares into the future; and lease infrastructure that has been damaged or swept away, including ropes, buoys, anchors, cages, etc.

Shore-based infrastructure, including buildings, launch points and wharves, has been damaged. As well, for our land-based fin fish farms, significant quantities of fuel needed to be used for their backup power generators, without which we would have seen much higher losses in terms of stock.

Based on the feedback we've received so far, in partnership with the province and DFO locally, we're estimating at the moment that we're looking at about $74 million in terms of damages. That's going to continue through the winter. It will probably be months before we have a final figure on that. Right now a lot of gear is being sunk or is ready for the ice to come in. We might not be seeing the level of mortality until the spring.

What does the aquaculture industry need in an immediate sense?

Smaller farms will, hopefully, be covered under the existing provincial disaster financial assistance program. We've been helping our members complete the application with the Red Cross. However, that program at the moment is capped at $200,000. For many of those, that's not high enough. We would like to see that cap increased, potentially up to the full $2 million.

They need to know if they are eligible for compensation, including for replacement of lost and damaged gear and lease infrastructure, for loss of market crop and seed, for the labour that's been involved in the cleanup, and for the cost of rebuilding.

We have larger companies that are not eligible for the existing program because they have more than 20 employees but that still suffered significant damages. We would like to see a separate program being developed, possibly with ACOA.

Looking further into the future, there are no reasonable insurance programs available for the aquaculture sector at this time. Again, aquaculture is a farming industry. Our members need support just as other Canadian farmers do. We would like to see those types of supports led by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, which understand farmers' needs. Some potentially suitable support programs such as that for business risk management, already exist under the established Canadian agricultural partnership. We would like to see aquaculture being made eligible to participate in those types of programs.

Another point is looking at the future planning. For a lot of the wharves and small craft harbours that were damaged it's difficult to assess the future needs with respect to those types of infrastructure when aquaculture vessels are not counted or considered currently under small craft harbours. They are not actually considered part of the core fleet even though in many cases, our members' boats are using those wharves more and for longer periods of time than the fishing vessels are.

In order to know what Canada's future marine infrastructure needs are, everyone must be included as part of those consultations. We'd like to see aquaculture vessels acknowledged as official users of small craft harbours.

Thank you again for your time today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

The third witness still hasn't joined us by video conference, so we'll go to questions.

Mr. Small, we'll start with you for six minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Well, look at that. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses today.

Mr. Warris, you made an interesting comment there about aquaculture not being considered an official user of small craft harbours. Do you think that's fair?

[Peter Warris]

No, not at all.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You mentioned that aquaculture would like to see a separate program developed with ACOA. Could you give us a couple of sentences to describe exactly where you'd like that separate program to be headed?

[Peter Warris]

I think the program itself could be very similar to the existing provincial disaster financial assistance program. It just needs to be made eligible for the larger companies. I believe the existing program is designed to address the needs of smaller companies, hence the limitation on I think 20 employees or less, or $2 million in revenue. Obviously, some of our members don't fall within that, but in terms of the criteria, the damages that have been caused by the storm are basically very similar; they're just on a larger scale.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

What do you think could be done to help your industry better prepare for these types of weather events in the future?

[Peter Warris]

I think there's a lot of work to be done in terms of looking at aquaculture in other parts of the world, and in other parts of Canada as well, where farming is done in deeper waters, in rougher waters, and with heavier engineering. Obviously, building back better is something that we'd definitely like to see.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay.

You don't really know how much damage you have. You quoted $74 million. Where do you think that figure will end up? What will you ultimately need in order to be able to survive and to continue in aquaculture in P.E.I.?

[Peter Warris]

I would hesitate to put an exact number on where I think that figure will end up. We have responses from about 85 members, I believe, so I could anticipate that to creep up around the $80-million mark, potentially.

In terms of what we need to survive, I think in the immediate sense, for a lot of our members, they have been completely devastated by this storm. We have lease infrastructure that is just basically gone, completely gone, and they need immediate financial support in order to redevelop those leases.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Are you finding that the necessary resources are being made available to you in a timely fashion?

[Peter Warris]

My understanding is that there's still some uncertainty as to what exactly will be covered by the program. We are now working through the process of helping our members with their Red Cross applications. I'm not aware of anyone actually completing that process as of yet.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

How's the anxiety level right now amongst your industry there in P.E.I.?

[Peter Warris]

For some members, I think it's fairly high, yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

All right. Thank you.

Ms. Glynn, how is the application process moving along for the harvesters you represent?

[Sherry Glynn]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

It's going reasonably well. As I mentioned, we're moving through the DFAA process. I think by the end of the week we'll have maybe eight of the 37 ready to submit.

If I get too detailed, please cut me off. The stumbling block or the biggest thing we're facing with that program is proving ownership for the infrastructure that's in that marine reserve space, which I believe is 15 metres from the high-water mark, that nobody owns. When you can't own it, you can't insure anything in that space. You also can't have any kind of a deed or title to that, so when it comes to proving ownership to avail this funding, that has proven to be very difficult. It's something that we're working through.

The province is certainly helping with that, but there have been a lot of hoops to jump through, especially when it comes to harvesters who had fishing infrastructure in resettled communities, we'll say, or communities where the population residents were resettled years ago. People basically have their fishing infrastructure there. Sometimes there's a cabin there. There's a wharf and a stage and that kind of thing. That has been very difficult, because there's no town council in place that can prove or provide supporting documentation for ownership of that. So that's been a struggle.

The other limitation we've seen with that program is that it's for uninsurable losses. Vessels are considered insurable. We had three vessel losses in that region of the province, on the southwest coast. Those folks were going to have to move through a different program with that, which I believe was the intention of the ACOA funding as kind of a backstop to the DFAA. We're still awaiting details on that.

Those are a couple of the challenges we have at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Glynn and Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Kelloway for six minutes or less, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's great to see the witnesses here. It's always good to see my fellow colleagues.

My first question is for you, Ms. Glynn. I think this may be our last session of this particular study. We've talked to a broad cross-section of people, from government to NGOs to fish harvesters to processors, and we all agree that a lot has been invested in small craft harbours but a lot more needs to be, based on Fiona and other Fionas to come. When I have someone like you and our other witness here, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you this. When we talk about “future-proofing” and “build back better”, what does that mean to practitioners like you? Can you give us some insight? If you had x dollars tomorrow, where would you start with a particular harbour? Where would you start with a particular process operation that's close by the water?

Mr. Warris, I'll be coming to you with the same type of question.

So where would you start, Ms. Glynn? Let's unpack the term “future-proofing” for a second. From your perspective at the FFAW, what does that mean to small craft harbours? What does that mean to inshore fishers? What does that mean to processing units?

[Sherry Glynn]

I'm certainly not an expert on marine infrastructure and I certainly wouldn't try to present myself as that. What I can relay, from working just about on a daily basis with those 37 harvesters, is some of the questions they're asking: How high do I need to build my wharf? What do I need to expect? What do I need to prepare against? There are those kinds of practical questions.

I was fortunate enough to sit in last week in person in one of your hearings, and it was Mr. Leys, a marine engineer, I believe, or a—

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's correct.

[Sherry Glynn]

He made a number of good points about new infrastructure performing better in the storm than older infrastructure. It was about the upkeep and keeping that infrastructure in top condition, which allows it to weather a storm better. It's about upkeep of what we have.

Another thing is on technology and new building material and new techniques, to investigate those and see what that has to offer. Sometimes that's going to be things like breakwaters: How large and high do these new breakwaters need to be to withstand the conditions that we saw two months ago—two months ago to the day almost—to withstand that?

Research into that and adopting best practices from other locations would all be very helpful in helping harvesters make those decisions and basically guide their investments.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you for the answer.

I'm not an expert on future-proofing. However, you are consistently talking to your stakeholders in terms of what will work and what wouldn't work. We need to hear more from the practitioners of the trade in terms of how to future-proof and build back better.

Mr. Warris, in terms of aquaculture, I'm wondering if I can address the same type of question from your point of view. You talked a little bit about it.

You highlighted that there are some best practices out there in terms of other countries that have future-proofed the aquaculture industry in a more prudent and effective way. I'm wondering if we could talk a bit about that as well, in terms of future-proofing from your perspective.