Evidence of meeting #6 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cfia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you to the witnesses, and thank you to Madame Desbiens for putting this study forward. It is of great value to Canadian consumers and Canadian fish harvesters.
Ms. Switucha or your colleague, developing seafood traceability was included in the mandate letters of three ministers—agriculture, health and fisheries—more than two years ago. Could you provide us with what progress has been made since then?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Following the 2019 mandate commitment to the Minister of Health, the CFIA, along with Fisheries and Oceans and Agriculture and Agri-Food, began our engagement with stakeholders, with academia and with non-government organizations to get a better understanding of the issue. We spent a bit of time undergoing discussions to further our knowledge.
Last year, in 2021, in partnership with those other departments, we launched an official consultation along with a discussion paper to gather consumer and industry feedback on three areas related to fish traceability. This issue covers the mandate of all three departments. CFIA's role pertains to food safety, whereas for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans we had some questions related to sustainability. For Agriculture and Agri-Food there were some points related to trade and market access and the branding of Canadian products.
Our consultation concluded at the end of 2021. We're currently analyzing the feedback received from that consultation. We hope to be able to—
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
With regard to current Canadian traceability standards, you indicated that not all seafood is tracked under that. For the seafood that is tracked, are there digital records of point of origin, species and harvest method, to verify that the seafood was legally caught? Are they maintained all the way through the supply chain?
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I believe questions with respect to catch and sustainability fall to my colleague.
11:45 a.m.
Director General, Fisheries and Resources Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Chair, I can respond to that from DFO's perspective and our jurisdiction, which is up to the wharf.
Certainly, we have a robust enforcement regime that's in place to ensure that harvesters are operating within the authority of their licence. They would be authorized to harvest only the specific species they are authorized to harvest. Our fishery officers would be enforcing those conditions of licence.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Developing this program is a complex initiative involving multiple government departments and agencies. How is the development being coordinated between those government entities? How closely have the different departments been working together on the traceability file since receiving the mandate in 2019?
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
There's been good collaboration between the three departments. During our investigative and consultation period we organized and participated collaboratively in various stakeholder meetings. Prior to the pandemic, we held a few rounds of face-to-face meetings. During the pandemic we have had joint meetings with various stakeholders. The development of the consultation paper and the analysis of the feedback have also been done in close collaboration between all three, and the report that will be published will be under the banner of all three departments.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
What is the timeline for getting boat-to-plate traceability in place, or at least developing a framework for it?
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
As I mentioned earlier, we will be publishing a “what we heard” report in the spring of this year, whereby we'll be looking at and determining whether there was consensus from Canadians, consumers, industry and others with respect to the approach.
There are various options available, both regulatory and non-regulatory, and while there was no real consensus from some of the early feedback that we got from Canadians, I think they are mainly concerned about making sure the fish and seafood they are eating is safe to eat. We are exploring but have not yet landed on specific options, whether regulatory or non-regulatory.
Industry is conscious of the additional regulatory burden that they might face. The exploration of non-regulatory opportunities to put in place a framework is available, but I'd like to remind the member that we already have very good food safety traceability measures in Canada. The expansion of that will need to be taken into close consideration with our mandate and that of our partners as well.
Our work to date—
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Your time is up. You've gone a bit over, actually.
We'll now go to Mr. Hardie, for five minutes or less.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you to the witnesses for being here.
When we do traceability, Ms. Switucha, it seems that the primary focus of the CFIA is food safety. What makes a food unsafe, particularly when it comes to fish?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
You are absolutely correct. Our focus, from a traceability perspective, is food safety and ensuring that when a food is prepared, manufactured, labelled, packaged and put up for trade in Canada, or imported or exported, it meets food safety requirements. That means it's prepared in conditions that are hygienic, that there is no risk of contamination, whether that be microbiological or chemical, that producers follow all the food safety rules that are laid out in our regulations and—
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I know there's a very long answer here, Madam. I don't really have time for long answers, but I get the picture.
If somebody presents a truckload of fish caught in the Wabigoon River—I don't know if you're familiar with that, but mercury contamination is a pretty big deal up in the Dryden area—would anybody know? Would anybody check for mercury contamination on a fish caught in Canada, or anywhere in the world?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
CFIA does extensive testing on fish products on an annual basis. We test approximately 4,000 samples every year for chemical and microbiological contaminants. We have a fairly robust surveillance program that tells us if fish are safe to eat in Canada.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Would that be for both domestically caught and imported?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Yes. That is correct.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When we deal with traceability, it should be a process by which we look for fraud; somebody's passing turbot off as halibut, let's say. There's also unfair competition. Are there situations where our market is being damaged because somebody somewhere else is literally scooping up everything from the ocean using very poor or unsustainable fishing habits?
There's the destruction piece of that, and then there is fish laundering. A species at risk caught in one part of the world passes through maybe one or two processes here in North America and we think it's just ducky. It's just fine, but it doesn't sound like anybody is in a position to really follow that. Is that true?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
The CFIA has a mandate for ensuring that food that is imported into Canada or food that's produced here is safe to eat. When it comes to catch practices or other issues that you mentioned, we don't have the mandate, but we are—
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Who does have a mandate there, Madam? Who has the mandate in Canada?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I'm sorry. I'm not in a position to answer that question. I'm not—
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I understand that, but I just needed to know. This is not an indictment of CFIA, but if you knew, it would be helpful for us to know.
Once a fish is caught, and particularly if it's caught offshore, do you know how many hands, how many processes, how many shipping legs it goes through, before it ends up in my local grocery store?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Not offhand, but I can say that the fish supply chain is a complex one. The path that's taken in the supply chain, from the time it's caught to the time it lands on a consumer's plate, could go through many hands. It depends from where it originates, of course, but it is a very complex supply chain. I agree with you.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
That suggests, then, that the one step back review is woefully inadequate in terms of keeping in touch. Has there ever been any serious audit of a whole supply chain to, in fact, see where something came from that ends up in the fishmonger's section of our grocery store and how many times it crossed the ocean, going back and forth to various processors? Has an audit ever been done, to your knowledge? Again, this isn't an indictment of you if you don't know.
11:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Our regular surveillance and verification activities demonstrate that there's a very high level of compliance. Fish has been regulated in Canada for quite a long time, even before the safe food for Canadians regulations came into being in 2019, and is probably one of the most stringently regulated of all the foods out there.
While I can't speak for other departments, I can certainly reassure you that fish is highly verified by the CFIA for its food safety risks. We follow up on investigations as required, when that intelligence or a complaint is made to CFIA.