Fisheries Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Tammy Switucha]

[Inaudible—Editor] and I certainly appreciate the challenge this poses to the members of the committee, and to average Canadians as well, in terms of understanding whether the food and fish they're eating are accurately labelled and, if they order something, if that is what they're getting.

I can state quite clearly that from a CFIA perspective we have a very good understanding of where along the supply chain—for which we have the mandate to regulate—there are non-compliances. Through partnerships, as I mentioned earlier, we can enhance our knowledge and ability to take additional steps in partnership with regulatory agencies in the provinces to undertake any necessary follow-up. It's not perfect, but it's the system we have, so I think it's incumbent on all of us to work together to be able to deal with this issue of misrepresentation in food.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

We'll now go to Mr. Zimmer for five minutes or less, please.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I hope I say your name right, Ms. Switucha. I have a simple question on the consultation you referred to earlier, the 120-day one on this specifically. How was it conducted? Who was invited to participate? Was it in person or was it via Zoom? I know that's a lot to answer in 60 seconds, but do your best.

[Tammy Switucha]

The consultation to which I referred, in August 2021, was an online consultation that was open to anyone to participate in. There was a discussion paper that was prepared between all three departments. This was posted online on all of our websites as well as the Consulting with Canadians web page for the Government of Canada.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

How many actually participated?

[Tammy Switucha]

We received a total of 150 submissions, some of them using the questionnaire that was provided in the consultation paper. Others were provided more generally, by email to us.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'd like a detailed synopsis of what that looked like, if you could provide that to the committee.

I'll pass the rest of my time to Mr. Perkins.

Thank you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Again, thank you, witnesses, for this very interesting testimony.

I'd like to follow up quickly on the excellent questions from Mr. Hardie and Mr. Morrissey.

You mentioned that the CFIA—or the government—is sampling 4,000 products a year. Is that where you got the 92%?

[Tammy Switucha]

No. This is the regular surveillance that we undertake to ensure that fish are not contaminated with either pathogens or chemicals. It's not related to the targeted study we did in 2019-20 for misrepresentation. That was a very focused study on a particular issue, versus our regular responsibility for monitoring the safety of fish that's eaten in Canada.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay, so that's not a regular study. Thank you.

Of the nine species that you mentioned you sampled in that study, you might be surprised to learn that in the Oceana report they found that escolar, which is a difficult fish for humans, was often sold as butterfish; fish sold as cod was actually haddock or pollock, which is much cheaper; halibut—my personal favourite—was haddock, flounder or turbot, which is much cheaper; and, unbelievably, wild-caught Pacific salmon was actually farmed Atlantic salmon, not even the same species and not even wild. Is that the same type of finding your team got?

[Tammy Switucha]

I'm not surprised at all by Oceana's findings. They have done some very good work in terms of looking into this problem.

As I mentioned earlier, we have to keep in mind the parameters of our study and the parameters of that done by Oceana. While the differences seem very stark, there are probably some differences in the way we did our studies and how we compared the results.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Oceana found—probably similar to you—that about 22% of retail was actually mislabelled. They used your standards of the fish classification—with 200 species, for example, classified as snapper, which seems confusing to me. It was all DNA-tested at an independent lab, so I think it's a pretty valuable study.

Has the government ever considered labelling for farmed salmon and aquaculture fish and also the distinction between those farmed in Canada and those farmed abroad?

[Tammy Switucha]

The method of that falls within the area of sustainability and is not something the CFIA has an authority to do, but we do absolutely require origin to be indicated on products that are sold in Canada, and that falls within our mandate.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

[Inaudible—Editor] some of those confusing origin things earlier, and you said there was a high degree of compliance, but you could not answer what the origin of any of these things was, and you only go back one.... I don't know how you get a high degree of compliance when you don't go through the full international supply chain. Can you help me understand that?

[Tammy Switucha]

When I speak to a high degree of compliance, I'm speaking about compliance with the regulations and the law in Canada. Currently, the law specifies that there are specific things for the health and safety of Canadians that must be on a label. Some of those other items are voluntary claims, and that is not something that there are currently requirements for, but they do, under the Food and Drugs Act and the regulations, still need to be truthful and not misleading.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Your time is up, Mr. Perkins. Actually, you've gone over.

Mr. Kelloway, you have five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses today. There are some great questions and great dialogue.

I'd also like to thank Madame Desbiens for putting forward this study and Mr. Morrissey for his work on this topic in the last session. I know it's important to him as well.

Throughout this conversation and some of the research I did.... I understand that CFIA did its own study of fish misrepresentation in 2019. Can you unpack what you found?

I'm also interested to know if you're planning to do more studies, so I have two questions: What did you find? Take some time to unpack that, if you'd like.

Further to that, are you planning to do more studies?

[Tammy Switucha]

As I indicated earlier, in 2019 and 2020 we undertook our first look into fish misrepresentation using the funding that we were provided in the food policy. We took a very targeted approach, looking at these nine species that we knew had a high likelihood of being misrepresented. We undertook sampling at various levels along the supply chain, so we took samples of foods that were imported and we took samples of fish that was domestically produced. We also went into retail and sampled fish that was packaged in the stores, as well as the fish sold in stores that came from processors. As I mentioned, in that particular study, we found that 8% of those samples were non-compliant.

We have continued doing that work. In the past year, we have followed up with additional sampling and testing, using the same parameters, and we're finding almost identical results. Domestically processed foods are mislabelled at around 4%, imports at around 5%, and at retail it's approximately 12%. This has been consistent over the past few years.

We'll continue to monitor this through our targeted projects as we move forward, because we're very concerned about misrepresentation. With the help of these other organizations, we can add to our intelligence to further investigate the problem.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Throughout this meeting, I've heard in one form or another from a variety of folks from different parties about authenticity and determining authenticity. Can you walk through what happens when tests show that a product is misrepresented or mislabelled?

[Tammy Switucha]

We undertake testing through DNA analysis to determine the species of any animal-based product, fish included, and when we find non-compliance, CFIA inspectors have a tool kit of actions available to them to use. Depending on the history of the specific company or client in a case, if they have a history of non-compliance, the inspectors have a variety of actions available to them. They can seize the product; they can detain it, and they can require that the product be relabelled. In very serious situations, when there's a long history of non-compliance, we now have the ability under the safe food for Canadians regulations to seize their licence, causing them to cease operation. As always, we have the mechanism to be able to prosecute as well.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Do you have stats in terms of someone who doesn't comply? Do you have yearly stats that are accumulated to determine what measures were taken, what percentage of people were offside and who faced accountability measures as a result of being somewhat of a bad actor?

[Tammy Switucha]

At the CFIA we publish all of our enforcement decisions on our website, and that information can be easily found there. Yes, we do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us for the two‑hour meeting. It's a lot, so we appreciate it very much.

I would like to talk about a concrete reality on the ground. There is the entire Canadian fisheries economy, but there are also authentic values and identity values. This is something we know well in the St. Lawrence River. The river and its estuary are important elements and an incredible resource bank.

However, because the opening dates of the fishing season are not in line with reality, we are in danger of losing certain ways of fishing, such as our capelin fishing. Weir fishing is a traditional way of fishing that requires expertise. We are very concerned about losing that tradition. There are still two weir fisheries, one of which is in the Maritimes, I believe.

How can DFO decentralize part of its exercise?

I think my question is more for Mr. Burns.

[Adam Burns]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I quite follow your question in terms of decentralizing.