Evidence of meeting #72 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Neil Davis  Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mark Waddell  Director General, Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 72 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022.

Before we proceed, I need to remind everyone to address all comments through the chair.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I am informing the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on December 9, 2022, the committee is proceeding to a briefing on measures taken by DFO in response to recommendations tabled in the committee report entitled “West Coast Fisheries: Sharing Risks and Benefits” of the 42nd Parliament.

Joining us today, we have officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. By video conference, we have Neil Davis, regional director of the fisheries management branch, Pacific region. Here in the room, we have Jennifer Mooney, director of national licensing operations, and Mark Waddell, director general of fisheries policy.

Thank you all for taking the time to appear today. You will have up to five minutes for an opening statement.

I don't know who is giving that statement.

11 a.m.

Neil Davis Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Chair, that will be me.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay. When you're ready, you have five minutes or less.

11 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members.

I'd like to start today by acknowledging the ongoing extreme wildfire situation that is affecting many Canadians in several regions across the country, including Nova Scotia, Quebec, Alberta and the Northwest Territories. While the situation there is evolving, we know that the impact is far-reaching, and our thoughts are with those affected by these extreme events.

My name is Neil Davis. I'm the regional director of fisheries management in the Pacific region, which includes B.C. and the Yukon. I'm honoured to be appearing before you today with my colleagues: Mark Waddell, who is our director general of fisheries policy, and Jennifer Mooney, our director of national licensing operations.

To begin, I will acknowledge that I am joining you today from Vancouver, located on the unceded traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.

My colleagues and I appreciate the opportunity to provide the committee with information on our activities in response to recommendations in your 2019 report.

The department understands the importance of fisheries to those who depend on the resource for their livelihoods. Our mandate commitments to reconciliation with indigenous peoples, the blue economy and the Pacific salmon strategy initiative all relate to the importance of managing fisheries to prioritize conservation and sustainable use, comply with our legal obligations, such as ensuring that indigenous rights are upheld, and promote the economic viability of commercial fisheries.

As you heard in the 2019 hearings, fisheries management and related licensing policy evolved differently on the west coast than on the east coast, with a primary focus here on managing fisheries to ensure the conservation of fish stocks and on addressing the challenges posed by overcapacity in the fishing fleet.

In 2020, the government issued a response to the committee's 2019 report. Among other things, the response acknowledged the minister's authority to consider social, economic and cultural factors in decision-making, noted that the needs and rights of indigenous harvesters must be respected and stated that engagement must include a cross-section of interests to arrive at approaches that are tailored to the B.C. context.

The 2019 report made recommendations for policy changes on matters that have significant implications for the livelihoods of fishers. We also know that fishery participants have diverse and strongly held views about some of these topics. Given this, DFO has planned and consulted on our work to date carefully. We have taken a staged approach to responding to the issues raised.

There are a number of the committee's recommendations that DFO has already taken steps to implement, and there are others where DFO plans to undertake more in-depth engagement as part of broader consultations planned on reforms to commercial fisheries that can support socio-economic objectives.

Since 2020, the department has conducted early engagement with industry associations, some first nations organizations and fishery advisory boards to gather initial views and questions on the 2019 report. This has informed the department's steps in the past several years to respond to the issues the committee raised.

I'll briefly summarize our work on specific recommendations here, and I'm happy to provide additional detail during this hearing.

In 2021, we completed a comparative analysis of fisheries policies and regulations on the west and east coasts, which aimed to identify changes that could support independent commercial harvesters on the west coast. Last year, we completed an assessment of the technical requirements and feasibility of developing a public-facing licence and quota registry.

In February 2022, the department launched the beneficial ownership survey to identify the domestic and foreign entities that are benefiting directly or indirectly from commercial fishing licences and quota.

Work has been initiated to further strengthen socio-economic information to support decision-making. This includes initiating new economic research and data collection through surveys to fill gaps. The first of these surveys launched in November 2022, with others getting under way this year. The department has also been working to make that socio-economic data more accessible by developing new commercial and recreational fishery data dashboards. These are planned to come online this fall.

DFO has also reviewed and updated its policy and terms of reference for commercial fishery advisory boards.

We expect to implement the next stage of an engagement plan to further consult on the work we've done and on the related issues we are discussing here. We're committed to working with commercial fishery participants to better understand their perspectives on the current challenges and potential solutions.

Thank you. We look forward to answering any questions you may have.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you for that.

We'll now proceed to our rounds of questioning.

I'd remind members to identify whom the question is actually being targeted to.

We'll start off with Mr. Arnold for six minutes or less, please.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Davis and the others for being here and coming back to us to report on our report, and their work on that report.

Mr. Davis, how many of the recommendations from the 2019 report have been completed at this stage?

11:05 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

We have work under way on a number of the recommendations, as I was describing briefly in my opening comments. We expect to be engaging on the balance of them, and we've done some work on a number of those as well through engagement that we expect to get under way in the months ahead.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

What would you say are the results of the assessment of the technical requirements of achieving this? How much more needs to be done? If you've achieved anything on that, what would it be?

11:05 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

It's a very good question.

What we really set out to do with that assessment was, first, to look at our existing systems and assess what it would take to draw those systems into a public-facing registry. I think what we learned from that first step is that we think we can do that. It's technically feasible. We had some proposals, or some direction, on what it would take to do that.

The pieces that I think we have some outstanding questions around are—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Before you move on to the next piece, how long is it going to take you to move that information system?

11:05 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

I don't know that we have an estimate yet to develop such a system. What we're working on right now is developing the contract. We would be seeking someone to develop the system. I expect part of the response to a request for proposals would be information provided by bidders about how long it would take them to develop what we're looking for.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

In your opening statement, you mentioned changes to the terms of reference of the commercial fisheries advisory boards. Can you tell us what those changes have been?

11:10 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

We have had a little bit of conversation with advisers in commercial fisheries advisory processes now to inform a review of the way we have terms of reference developed now, which can vary from one committee to the next for each fishery.

Out of that, we've drafted some revisions to what would be the terms of reference and some guidance for how we would develop terms of reference for each individual fishery. We expect to be engaging stakeholders on that as part of the broader engagement that we do. I don't have the specific changes in front of me, but the idea would be to take that out and see what kind of feedback we get to arrive at something that we think is going to be workable and that reflects the interests and some of the recommendations that this committee made in terms of making those advisory boards more inclusive.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

I would say that's different from what was in your opening statement that was provided to us. It said, “DFO has also reviewed and updated its policy and Terms of Reference for commercial fishery advisory boards.” What I got from you just now was more like you're looking at those reviews. In other words, you're planning to plan, similar to the integrated fisheries management plans that haven't been developed, which were promised back in the 1990s, where the department's response was to develop a plan to develop those plans.

Would you say that's any different from what's happening here? You're developing terms of reference to develop terms of reference.

11:10 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

No, but thank you for the chance to clarify.

We have reviewed and updated our policy and terms of reference for commercial advisory bodies, but we view them as drafts, because we would like to take those revised versions out for consultation before we finalize them.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

I probably only have time for one more question.

Could you provide the committee with a table showing the status of government responses to the 2019 recommendations, timelines and dates for the ongoing actions?

11:10 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

Yes, we can certainly do that.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Okay, thank you very much.

Is this issue a priority for the minister?

11:10 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

I think that's a better question for the minister than for me. We've made commitments in the government's response to the 2019 recommendations that include a commitment to further engagement around the issues that were raised, and we intend to follow through with that.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Okay, thank you.

I was looking at my timer wrong. I thought I had five minutes; I have six.

Why is it that so little has been achieved on this when the problem really has been around for much longer than from when the report came out in 2019? Obviously, it was a known issue prior to that report; otherwise, it wouldn't have been brought to this committee to do a study on.

Why would you say so little has been achieved on this issue when so many lives and so much revenue are at risk?

11:10 a.m.

Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Neil Davis

I don't know that I would share the view that so little has been done. I think we knew from the outset that the committee's recommendations were very wide-ranging and addressed a number of very complex topics on which participants in the commercial fishery have a real diversity of views.

From the outset, we knew we would take a staged approach to how we responded to the issues the committee raised, pick the things we knew we could advance and get moving on immediately while we reached out and did some initial engagements to start gathering views and developing a bit of a plan for how we would engage in more depth on those topics that we see as more foundational and where, in order to address or initiate some of the changes the committee had recommended, we would need to be thinking very carefully through the implications of change and how we would get through that process.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

From thinking you had five minutes, you almost went to seven.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less, please.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Or perhaps I have close to seven minutes. Who knows?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here.

The west coast has certainly been invested in the outcomes of that 2019 report. There was a session in early 2020 in Nanaimo, and then another one earlier this year in Victoria. Mr. Davis, you attended that and presented some information. I think that was very valuable. Were you able to stay in that session long enough to see how the attendees rated or prioritized the recommendations in the 2019 report?