Fisheries Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Davis, what has the department determined as being doable? Is there anything from the 2019 report, anything that we've heard to date, that you would define as doable or actionable?

[Neil Davis]

Yes, I think there are a number of things, and those are some of the things that we've acted on over the past several years. That includes—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Davis, could you provide to the committee in writing what you have actioned over the past years, since 2019, as it relates directly to those recommendations, or even if it wasn't in the recommendation, anything you have actioned that would address the issue we've been hearing about constantly as it relates to corporate concentration ownership and foreign ownership? I would appreciate it if you could provide a summary.

[Neil Davis]

Yes, we could provide a summary.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, thank you.

My next question is either for Mr. Davis or for Mr. Waddell.

Is there any practice that you feel could be transferred from the east coast to the west coast as it relates to the different issues we've been hearing about at this committee now over two studies? We hear a lot of presenters appear before committee and reference the east coast as a laudable objective in terms of where the west coast should be going. We know it's complex, and you cannot unravel it. Numerous people have referred to unscrambling the omelette, but from your position within the ministry, what practices from the east coast do you think would be easily adaptable to the west coast situation as a starting point?

[Neil Davis]

I will offer a couple of thoughts on that, and then Mr. Waddell may wish to add more.

As you said, there have been a number of individuals and organizations that have identified examples on the east coast as things that the west coast should implement, owner-operator and fleet separation being the two most commonly cited examples. In our initial assessments, we have looked at those and recognized that to take those steps would not be very simple. It's for the reasons that you identified, in that there are existing arrangements that we would need to take account of.

I think those are the most commonly cited examples and the ones that seem, I think, most important or among the most important to a number of people who are looking for change. I think our initial assessment is that it may be possible but it would be complicated, and we would be making significant changes to the management approach that's been in place for some time.

I'll invite my colleague to add to that, if he wishes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Could we get it in writing, because Mr. Morrissey has gone way over his time?

Madame Desbiens has the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Davis, you said earlier that the minister has a certain amount of discretion. We often compare our country’s east and west coasts. But I can confirm that what’s happening in the west is also happening in the east.

The Committee heard from people who testified that their family had always fished, that they owned quotas, permits, boats and so on, but that they’d lost everything. There are schemes afoot to get owner-operators to relinquish their licences.

We don’t have much time to turn this ship around, and a ship doesn’t maneuver so easily. In the short term, what tools does the minister have to stop the bleeding? I don’t quite know how to put it, but there’s definitely some urgency involved, do you understand?

What do you think of the idea of the minister responding quickly to the most glaring problems, such as entire families losing their boats, licences or quotas due to the complexity of certain schemes?

[Neil Davis]

In terms of the tools available, I think you can see different approaches that have been taken on the east coast. I'm not an expert on that, but I will just quickly identify that there are some instances where limitations have been placed on foreign ownership. There have been regulatory solutions implemented to advance the owner-operator interests, such as the inshore regulations on the east coast. I think there are a variety of policy and regulatory tools we can use to advance the minister's agenda or the department's agenda on these that we have at our disposal and that we have some experience with.

Again, I would invite my colleague, Mr. Waddell, to add more.

[Mark Waddell]

The only thing I'd build onto that response is to indicate that in all instances where we have stood up those policy regulatory tools, we've done so through consultation with our indigenous partners and industry itself. There is the immediate tool kit. It does run into the practical reality of our need to engage and get consultative feedback from our partners.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens. We went a little bit over.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I forgot to set the timer, so I'll just trust you to cut me off. Thank you.

I want to ask this of Mr. Davis specifically. There were some questions asked today about staffing numbers. I'm curious if you can share with us what an ideal staffing composition would look like to be able to see this move forward in a more timely manner.

[Neil Davis]

I think the key is for us to draw on the expertise and time of a variety of existing staff within the department. The reality is that we need expertise in things like licensing and in our management approaches, which vary from one fishery to the next. We essentially need to draw on the expertise as we move ahead.

It's a matter of work planning and ensuring that we plan ahead to have the time we need from those who have the expertise to contribute to this. Then we have that coordinating and leading function happening with the dedicated staff on this file.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Mr. Davis, do you feel that's been happening to date? Have the staff been fully utilized to their best capacity to contribute to this work in a timely manner?

[Neil Davis]

As my colleague mentioned, we have the minister's mandate letter, which sets out a set of priorities for us. The contributions of a number of those staff I mentioned are sought on a variety of the department's priorities as set out in that mandate letter.

It will always be a balancing act. It will always be a matter of trying to support a number of the priorities that have been identified for the department to move different files forward. I think that will remain the challenge as we move ahead.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 30 seconds.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

My last question for you, Mr. Davis, is around why there is such a different approach being taken on the east coast versus the west coast. We have seen that we can look at an approach that ensures there are boots on the boats and profits going back to local communities. Although there are clearly some issues related to the processes being used on the east coast, they're clearly seeing the advantages going to local fishers in the east to a larger extent than we're seeing in the west. Why is there such a different approach?

I think I've already taken up my 30 seconds, so perhaps you can submit that in a written response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming.

The first couple of questions might go to Mr. Davis, but whoever is the right person should feel free to answer. I'm never quite sure who the right person is on this one.

Mr. Davis, the Gardner Pinfold study that was done—I think it was completed in 2021—was two years after this committee's report on corporate ownership and foreign ownership. Is that right?

[Neil Davis]

It was issued in early 2021.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay, so it was two years.

If I read it correctly, it actually does recommend an Atlantic-style restructuring of the B.C. owner-operator and fleet separation policies. Am I reading that correctly?

[Neil Davis]

I might slightly edit that to say that we asked the contractor what it would take if we were to implement those east coast policies in a west coast context. The contractor provided advice on that question.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm aware that's what you asked. I think I saw a line, towards the conclusion, that said it would be of value. It outlined a process to get there, or at least to do the consultation, and some of the pitfalls learned from various things done.

If I understand you correctly, right now we're in what Gardner Pinfold would call the “what we heard” phase, which is the consultation to produce a report by DFO on what the various stakeholders think. They called it the “what we heard” stage.

Is that correct?

[Neil Davis]

I think we have more engagement to do. I think that, out of some more in-depth engagement, we will be better placed to do something like generate a well-informed “what we heard” report.