Fisheries Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

So it would be now to the PMO. Is that correct?

[Niall O'Dea]

Yes. Those decisions are taken outside, at a whole-of-government level.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

Earlier this year, in testimony, Ms. Telford, the Prime Minister's adviser, said that “everything the Prime Minister receives, he spends a lot of time with and most definitely reads.” Can you confirm where the documents are and if he even received them?

[Niall O'Dea]

That's a question that you would need to pose to the Privy Council Office itself.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It appears that the roadblock is at the PMO or cabinet, if it's not with your department. Is that correct?

[Niall O'Dea]

I wouldn't be able to speak to that. You'd have to speak to others.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

But it's gone past your department up to the cabinet level. Is it at the minister's level?

[Niall O'Dea]

Just to be clear, Chair, it's not a matter of it going past our department. It's not a decision that we make. We provide information and others produce advice to make those decisions.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Everything here indicates that the roadblock is at the PMO.

I'll move on to Mr. O'Dea.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans is currently serving as a fiduciary for the Great Lakes Fishery Commission and as a hired contract agent for the delivery of sea lamprey control. How can you not see this as a conflict of interest?

I'll ask the same question of Mr. McClinchey or Mr. Lambe once you've finished.

[Niall O'Dea]

Certainly, I recognize that the advice that the commission has received is different. The advice that we've received is that there is no conflict of interest between the duties of the commission and those of the Government of Canada or the department, as those duties and interests are one and the same, which is the mandate of the sea lamprey control program and the broader activities of the commission, which are done to serve the binational interests of Canada and the U.S.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. McClinchey or Mr. Lambe, would you agree?

[Robert Lambe]

Well, we have a legal decision, a legal opinion, on a conflict of interest. That's now in the package for you to read.

I do want to clarify that DFO doesn't receive money from Parliament just for sea lamprey control. It receives money for the entire suite of programs that the commission delivers. We're about a lot more than sea lamprey control. We're about fisheries management coordination. We're about research and coordination of research.

The money that the department receives is for more than just sea lamprey control. The conflict is around the delivery of sea lamprey control, but it's a bigger picture than that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. O'Dea, has the department done an analysis of the potential flow of the funds to GAC or another department, instead of going through DFO?

Just a yes or no would be fine.

[Richard Goodyear]

We've been asked to look at the possibilities and the potential pros and cons, and we've provided that advice.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Have you done that analysis? Could you provide it to the committee?

[Richard Goodyear]

We've provided advice in terms of what it might look like if it were delivered via another government department.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Could you provide the committee with the advice you've provided?

[Richard Goodyear]

We can provide that information, yes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you very much.

I think I'll pass my time, if there's any left, to Mr. Epp.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Actually, you have two seconds left.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I'll take it, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You can't talk that fast, let me tell you.

We'll now move on to Mr. Kelloway for five minutes or less, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I will share my time with MP Hardie. It will be a little more than two seconds.

I think it's important to note that budget 2022 states, “Budget 2022 proposes to provide $44.9 million over five years, starting in 2022-23, and $9.0 million ongoing to Fisheries and Oceans Canada to support the Great Lakes Fishery Commission.” Likewise, supplementary estimates (C) provide funding to DFO as “Funding to support the work of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission (Budget 2022)”.

I've heard today that money is being withheld. I think that was referenced once or twice. I'm wondering, to DFO, could you clarify how this money is being used?

[Richard Goodyear]

Mr. Chair, the funding is appropriated to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Then, with that funding, DFO funds the sea lamprey control program. The remainder of the funding that's been appropriated to DFO will flow through to the GLFC, as Mr. Lambe has indicated, for the remainder of their programs.

In terms of the sea lamprey control program costs, we validate at the end of each fiscal year how much was spent. At the beginning of the year, we have an estimate of what it's going to cost to deliver that program. Then we provide whatever funding remains at the end of the year from the sea lamprey control program to the GLFC. The only funding that remains inside the department related to GLFC activities is what is specifically required for the delivery of the sea lamprey control program.