Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Timothy Sargent]

Maybe I'll ask our RDG, Doug Wentzell, to answer that one.

[Doug Wentzell]

Thanks so much.

In terms of the elver fishery, this is a fishery we are managing very closely, given the conservation concerns. In terms of the specific question, we are working with first nations who have expressed an interest in this fishery over several years, and that is the department's—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What about commercial fishermen, non-indigenous commercial fishermen?

[Doug Wentzell]

We do know about the possibility of partnerships with first nations within our region. Those partnerships could still happen. Our priority in terms of access is with first nations partners at this point.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

They were told to talk to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you for the opportunity, and again I appreciate the time you're spending with us.

I wanted to just come back to microplastics and the question I asked the minister, and just focus a little bit more in this area.

Deputy Minister, maybe I'll ask more about your approach to microplastics writ large, and whether you are in fact looking at a “polluter pays” model and also at scaling up some of the more grassroots cleanup efforts that we currently see being publicized.

[Niall O'Dea]

Thank you for the question.

Chair, I'll outline a couple of the activities we're undertaking in this regard. We're working very closely with our colleagues at Environment and Climate Change Canada on their efforts to address plastic pollution, and more broadly to address questions around creating a circular economy.

In that regard, the microplastics, which the member points to, often are of origins further upstream and in terrestrial systems. Our work with Environment Canada is on getting at some of those upstream sources as well as determining measures to prevent and remove those substances once they are in watercourses. That effort is under way currently, building on commitments made at the G7 and beyond, and we look forward to bringing forward more details on that in the months to come.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I want to cede my remaining time to Mr. Hardie. I believe he has one further question.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hanley.

To the officials, in the 42nd Parliament we had report 21 entitled “West Coast Fisheries: Sharing Risks and Benefits”. We have not seen much, in fact, let's say anything, from the department on the 20 recommendations that were made in that. I know this question somewhat comes out of the blue, but to the degree that you're familiar with that report, can you give me a sense as to whether or not action, consideration, planning or work have been under way?

[Neil Davis]

Thanks for the question.

We have actually taken a number of steps in response to this—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

With respect to those recommendations....

[Neil Davis]

Yes, it's specific to the recommendations.

One of them, for example, was about conducting a comparative analysis of licensing and managed regimes on the east and west coasts. We contracted that work. A report was completed and issued around March of 2021.

We have also undertaken work in response to the recommendations related to transparency to analyze the technical requirements associated with setting up a licence and quota registry that would be publicly available for anyone to research information. We've also been undertaking a fairly extensive engagement with some of the key groups to really set the stage for broader discussions about the full suite of recommendations.

The last piece I'll mention is that there was also a recommendation that talked about the kind of socio-economic data we would collect to inform decisions. There is also work going on with our policy group to examine what further kinds of surveys or data collection we could undertake to respond to that recommendation. The last thing I'll mention is that on that broader suite of recommendations, we do expect to be going out and initiating larger or broader engagement with external groups about FOPO's recommendations in the coming months.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you for that. Those recommendations are highly important on the west coast because of the situation there.

I would appreciate in writing from the department just a notion as to what other ministries need to be involved. When we're talking about setting up a registry of beneficial ownership of licences and quotas, that's not normally something that the DFO would become involved with. If it can, great. If it cannot, then who should we be talking to?

In terms of action on these recommendations, even though right now we're struggling to make sure that nobody is going to catch the last fish, we hope there's going to come a day where we're back to abundance. These matters of how we share the benefits from the fish coming out of the ocean will really matter and we want to be ready for that.

Mr. Chair, that's what I had. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We'll now close it out with Mr. Small, for five minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Fish harvesters are being marginalized in major discussions about their livelihoods. Harvesters' input in DFO scientific and management processes is becoming less and less, with seats at the science and industry advisory tables disappearing. For example, harvesters have asked for science work to be completed in new mackerel spawning areas off the east coast of Newfoundland. They voluntarily collected samples and proposed to collect scientific information that DFO will not collect, yet mackerel harvesters continue to be ignored as they watch their quotas being caught.

Will you commit to creating a system of increased participation for harvesters in fisheries like the mackerel fishery in fishery science management? If so, when would you implement something like that if you decided to let fishers be more involved in science?

[Timothy Sargent]

I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the question, because I think there are a lot of ways for fish harvesters to be involved in our science processes, and subsequent to that, in the fishing management processes as well. However, specifically on mackerel, I'd ask our ADM of science, Arran McPherson, to weigh in on that.

[Dr. Arran McPherson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I'll start by apologizing that my headset was not functioning right at the beginning of this committee and I unfortunately won't be using a mike.

To the member's question around mackerel, I'd just like to address that it's really important to have open discussions with harvesters around what science is required, which is why for the mackerel fishery we convened a technical working group between science, managers and harvesters a number of years ago and have been working to increase data collection, as well as address the questions that harvesters have brought to us.

We have looked at a number of sampling regimes. We've collected juveniles, we've done genetic work, and we continue to engage with our harvester colleagues on the questions they have.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you very much.

I wonder if you've heard reports of western Atlantic mackerel actually being found in Iceland. The migratory patterns are changing with the changing climate. Are you about to adjust how you do your sampling, and where and when and what times of the year, and things like that?

If climate is evolving, is your science evolving and how accurate do you think your mackerel science is right now? Do you think it's accurate at all?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

We use a number of different data streams to evaluate the status of mackerel. As I mentioned in my previous response, we use otolith microchemistry, genetic analysis, juvenile studies and trawl studies, all of which allow us to put together a picture of how these different populations of mackerel evolve and occur in our—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

We absolutely need interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'd ask Ms. McPherson to probably provide a written response, because without the headset we're not getting the proper interpretation.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Can we get a written response to those questions from Mr. Small, please?

[Timothy Sargent]

Mr. Chair, I would be happy to do that.