Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have three minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Minister, I talked to you about the weir capelin fishery in the St. Lawrence River. The problem is that you want to universalize the fishing periods, but the dates of that particular fishery are not consistent with those of Newfoundland and Labrador.

This is an urgent matter. For the only two remaining capelin fisheries in the St. Lawrence that constitute intangible heritage, we would like the fishery to be able to begin on April 1, but your department has extended this date to June 1. There isn't any capelin left in the river in June.

Is your department open to addressing this issue quickly?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

My department is very concerned about this important issue, on which Quebec, and Newfoundland and Labrador have differing views.

I will ask the officials to answer your question in more detail.

[Jean-Guy Forgeron, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

We engage with our stakeholders in setting when we have seasons and the opening of seasons. To provide more details on this, we would be able to provide a written answer to the committee.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

We'll come back to it in the next round of questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

That's great. Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I have more questions than I have time, but I do want to quickly address.

Before we get started, first of all, I understand the frustration caused by having reduced time with the minister today, but I do want to highlight, with all due respect to the member, that behaviour that is confrontational and aggressive is a barrier to women's getting involved in politics. Around the table today and currently within Parliament women make up only 30%. At this table, the competition is between me and Madame Desbiens and now the minister who has joined us today. I hope that in the future when she joins this committee, Minister Murray will be treated with the respect she deserves. I personally am not in favour of the treatment I just saw. I wanted to express that and to express my frustration at witnessing and being part of that today.

I have many questions, Minister, that I want to ask you, and I do hope that we can have future follow-up questions as well. Minister, in your mandate letter to the government, you said that the clear timeline for the removal of open-net pen fish farming in B.C. waters was the end of 2025. That stated goal doesn't seem to be consistent with the actions of your department or the realities on the water. That's what we're hearing. DFO is currently reviewing an application by one open-net fish farm in Clayoquot Sound that could see a 33% increase in capacity, for just one example.

DFO is also reviewing applications for the creation of a new salmon fish farm in B.C. I'm wondering why DFO is even considering applications to intensify fish farming in B.C. when that goes directly against the commitments of the government to phase out open-net pen salmon farming in a few short years.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I want to thank the member for her intervention around decorum at the committee. Thank you very much for that.

Thanks for the question on my mandate to work on a responsible plan to transition from open-net pen salmon farming in coastal British Columbia waters by 2025. I will mention that some of that work has already taken place, with over three and a half million salmon removed from the Discovery Island site since December 2020.

We are working towards a draft plan in the coming months that will allow us to receive input from the industry, from stakeholder groups and others such as workers and indigenous communities. My vision of this is that we have a vibrant salmon aquaculture industry on the west coast based on technology that is not open-net pens. That means a careful, inclusive, science-based approach, and we're working on a road map towards that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I have more questions around fish farms, but I want to make sure I get to some other topics that are important.

Last summer, DFO made the decision to close the majority of B.C.'s fisheries to conserve rapidly declining salmon stocks. However, in a recent report, we found that B.C. fishers were stuck at the docks while Alaskan commercial fishers caught 800,000 sockeye salmon that were headed for B.C. waters. This is similar for pink, chum, chinook and coho.

The Pacific Salmon Commission is meeting this week. I'm wondering; will you be bringing the interception of B.C. salmon to the commission? Also, is your government willing to examine mechanisms to amend this treaty before the next review in 2028 to address this issue before there are no salmon left?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I know that the state of our Pacific salmon stock is an urgent concern to all of us, and nobody wants to hear allegations that another country is intercepting our fish. The actuality of that, I think, needs some neutral scientist to examine.

Because Global Affairs Canada is the one who sits at the table in terms of the Pacific salmon treaty, I've asked them to raise this.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I didn't check my time. If I have one more question, one of the issues I've heard most clearly from B.C. commercial fishers is that our current licensing model for fishing on the west coast is fundamentally broken and leaving local fishers behind. It's an issue that this committee in particular studied in great detail in 2019, recommending that DFO develop an owner-operator licensing model. These calls have been echoed by UFAWU.

I'm wondering when we can expect DFO to create a beneficial licence model for west coast owner-operators to support local fishers, and not anonymous licence-holders like foreign corporations.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I think the member probably is aware that there are varying views on the ownership model on the west coast. The structure on the east coast is quite different at this point.

In order to look into this situation, we have put in place a review of the beneficial ownership of the fisheries on the Pacific coast to understand the current situation and then explore changes that might be appropriate in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold, for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through you, Chair, thank you, Minister, for appearing today. You've been the minister now for 114 days.

Minister, my colleague, Mr. Perkins, and I sent you three letters 57 days ago, on December 21. We've yet to receive responses from you despite requesting a response. It seems that either you don't open your mail, or you ignore the responsibility to answer questions raised by Canadians and other elected representatives. Which one is it?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I certainly am interested in any communications by any of the members around this table. I appreciate your work. Your perspectives are important, and I look forward to providing you with an answer.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Minister. We look forward to a timely response.

Minister, do you communicate with your parliamentary secretary regularly, and does he keep you apprised of what happens at this committee?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I have the great fortune to have an excellent and effective parliamentary secretary, who is very engaged with fisheries, not just in his own community in Nova Scotia but across the country. We are in frequent conversation about how we can support this committee and our fishers in their communities across the country.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

When the Pacific strategic salmon initiative was announced last year, former minister Jordan—she was, I believe, the fourth minister in five years, and now you're the fifth—repeatedly stated that it would be built from the ground up. Last week at committee, a DFO official told this committee that the PSSI is the conduit for your government's response to the floods that ravaged B.C. and aquatic habitats last November and December.

Minister, what is the status of the PSSI, and when will it be functioning?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

This is absolutely a signature initiative. As you know, it comes with close to $650 million of funding. It preceded the floods, but, yes, one of the pillars of this—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Can you tell us when it will be up and functioning? That's the question.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

It will be up and functioning as soon as we are ready to put cheques out the door for this very important work.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

There's no definite time then. You don't know. Thank you.

How much of the PSSI's $647 million—you mentioned almost $650 million—has already been committed and to what?

If you don't have the answer today, you can say that you don't know.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I will ask my officials to answer that question. I would be happy to talk about the key priorities of this funding.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

We have been reduced to only one hour with you, Minister, so I would rather not receive an answer from the officials. If you don't have the answers, the officials can provide that in writing after the meeting. Thank you.

As the PSSI is being built from the ground up, who is determining how it is being built and in what forums are these determinations being made?