Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

The PSSI has been laid out in four pillars. There is conservation and restoration, harvest transformation, hatchery and enhancement, and also collaboration with the provincial, municipal and indigenous communities. There are a number of factors to it.

DFO will be determining what is funded. We have yet to bring forward some of the specific programs that money will flow through, but I can tell you that it will restore coastal restoration funding.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

In 2019, the Prime Minister issued former minister Jordan a mandate to make new investments in fighting aquatic invasive species. Apart from adding a single full-time position at DFO Pacific, Minister Jordan failed to deliver on her mandate. The commissioner of the environment and this committee have repeatedly warned your government of the threats of aquatic invasive species, that they are acute and that equitable distribution of resources for fighting AIS must be delivered.

Minister, will you stand up for British Columbians and other Canadians and finally deliver new investments to fight against aquatic invasive species?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We will deliver effective responses to invasive species, and we are doing that on all coasts at present.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I beg to differ, Madam Minister.

What new actions are being taken to address the threat of AIS in B.C. and western Canada, other than the environment minister's announcement for national parks? What other measures?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'm sorry. Was that AAS? I didn't catch—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's AIS, aquatic invasive species.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We have a number of measures on aquatic invasive species from green crab to lamprey eels, so I'm not sure—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm referring to new measures.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

—which specific one, but we can give you an answer in writing.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We will now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

British Columbians know of Minister Murray's passion and expertise for the environment, but not just the natural environment. Her record is also an understanding and appreciation for the essential elements of our social, cultural and economic foundation on the west coast. This is what she's bringing now to the whole country. Therein lies, I think, a fundamental conflict, particularly in this portfolio.

We see stocks across the country in bad shape. We see our harvesters struggling to make a living as the government tries to balance the need to preserve and restore stocks with the interests of communities small and large to earn a living. I would like to ask the minister how she intends to balance those two struggling attributes of her portfolio.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for the question and for your long-term contributions to the fisheries committee.

That is, indeed, the challenge of fisheries. People in remote communities really depend on their harvest activities, but I have also heard from them that they are very intent on ensuring that the next generation of their children and grandchildren can benefit from the fisheries and fish production work.

We all have the same interest, which is that, in the long term, we have a healthy ocean. It's the healthy ocean that is the basis for healthy local economies.

I'll mention one program that I think is going to be very helpful in this, which is the blue economy strategy that my mandate asked me to put together. The blue economy will be very focused on rural communities and opportunities, innovation and ways to have new and more jobs in rural communities as we seek to rebuild and make resilient our fisheries and oceans for the years to come.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you Minister.

As we look at balancing those two needs, there's a constant argument over science. That argument comes from all directions. In the last Parliament, we saw science out of the DFO that said that the aquaculture installations on Discovery Island weren't a significant risk. That didn't pass the sniff test.

There are others who will also challenge the science that the DFO is using to not allow mark-selective fisheries or other fisheries that they believe are abundant enough to be fished.

I'd like the minister's assessment on the state of science in the DFO—especially with the major investments we made back in the 42nd Parliament—and these conflicts that keep coming up.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Science is absolutely the underpinning of what we do at DFO. I have a great deal of respect for the scientists at DFO. Yes, we significantly rebuilt the science in this country after 10 years of a Conservative government that did not respect science and cut budgets for science. That has been a critical part of what we're doing.

Scientists don't always agree on everything. The process of science is almost like a challenge function. People bring their data and results forward and discuss them with others to reach, as best as possible, a unified conclusion. Different opinions and analysis are inherent in science.

With respect to the salmon aquaculture comment, DFO says that there is minimal risk from particular threats to the wild Pacific salmon. However, those minimal risks are cumulative if there is a number of potential diseases or parasites. In my view, with the absolute crisis that we're in with our wild Pacific salmon, any addressable threats need to be addressed. We want to be the generation that has protected our wild Pacific salmon and made it more resilient and healthy, not the other way around.

The science is important, but so is the outcome. That's what I'm determined to focus on.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I was just going to tell you that your time is up, Mr. Hardie.

We'll move on now to Madame Desbiens for two and half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The minister said something about fishing in marine protected areas. She seems to have said that it's probably allowed, but it's prohibited in the American Bank. So there is some confusion there, which I just wanted to bring to the committee's attention.

I would like to come back to the capelin fishery in the St. Lawrence. It is an intangible heritage that we care very much about. I understand the major concerns of the departments about all kinds of things, but we also have to be concerned about the expertise required in the capelin fishery. We have documents in front of us right now that we have shared with the minister and the officials. It is a set of studies conducted by scientists that confirm that there is no link between the St. Lawrence capelin population and the capelin population of Newfoundland and Labrador, and that a small capelin can travel 200 kilometres, but not 2,000.

So I want to stress that. I would like the minister to tell me that officials from her department will be looking into this matter very soon so that weir capelin fishing in the St. Lawrence River will be allowed in Charlevoix as early as April 1.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for the question.

We aren't ready to announce the decisions we're going to make on capelin.

However, I know that the stock is a little low.

We need to build it, but the science has not been concluded and the decisions have not been made as to the allocation of that stock.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that an incredible amount of capelin is rolling into the St. Lawrence River. We've rarely seen that. So the quantity is there.

I'd like your department's scientists to address this issue quickly, because there are two unique fisheries at stake in Canada. If fishers are not given permission to fish in these two fisheries as early as April 1, they are at risk of disappearing, leaving only the one in the Maritimes. Instead of setting the date for April 1, your department has postponed it to June 1, which is frightening and catastrophic for fishermen.

I would really like you to assure me that your team will urgently look into this matter, Madam Minister. Can you give us and our fishers that hope?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We will look into this, and I will ask the officials to follow up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I'll be sharing my two and a half minutes with my colleague MP Taylor Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleague for sharing her time.

Through you to the minister, it's good to have you before the committee today. Fish harvesters across Canada were pleased when, in 2020, your government made the eligibility criteria for the EI fishing benefit more flexible in light of the pandemic, in light of the challenges they've been facing. After the most recent fishing season, fish harvesters on the B.C. coast, hundreds and hundreds of them, applied for the EI fishing benefit based on the criteria on the government's website. After they applied, it seems the criteria on the website were changed. Now ESDC is rejecting all of their applications.

I've spoken with the fishermen's union. I've spoken with the unemployed action centre in Prince Rupert. These are organizations that have worked for decades with fish harvesters to help them apply for benefits. They understand the criteria in detail. They're baffled as to what's happening here. They've tried to engage both with your department and with ESDC repeatedly and have heard nothing back.

Can you tell the committee, are you aware of this issue and what are you doing to address it?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you to the member for that question.

I'm certainly aware of the fish harvester benefit and the decision to quickly stand up a brand new benefit in a matter of weeks due to the impacts of COVID potentially on harvesters' income, especially those who couldn't access the CERB.

We, being the collective government, through Service Canada and the tax department, are doing our very best to address any confusion that occurred. The intention was clear. That was a benefit for those who could not access EI.