Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, if I could clarify, this is isn't the fish harvester benefit. This is EI. This is the EI fishing benefit that the issue is with.

I encourage you to talk with the department officials and figure this out as quickly as possible, especially to get back to the parties who have been requesting engagement on this issue. That's the real frustration here. There's radio silence. Your department is not getting back to the fishermen's union and to the advocates.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We will speak with ESDC, who manage EI, and ensure that these questions are not falling between the cracks, so that you, on behalf of your constituents, can receive an answer.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I cede my time to my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

There is actually none left. It's gone over, but that's a good try.

We'll now go to Mr. Zimmer for five minutes or less, please.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

In following up with the questions that I said I would ask you before the committee, I'll start off with this one. Are you committed to working with our angling community, yes or no?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Yes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Awesome.

This is a letter to you from the Public Fishery Alliance dated February 4, 2022, asking for a chinook retention opportunity in areas 28, 17, 18 and 19 in B.C. This is the letter's ask:

...we are asking that your department works with the public fishery representatives via the SFAB process and local SFAC Chairs to develop fishing plans that permit much needed public access to Chinook in the spring of 2022. This is when stocks of concern from the Fraser, or stocks identified as small stream stocks of concern, are not present due to their summer and fall run timings. During this same [time] period hatchery marked Chinook are prevalent.

They're in the millions, Minister. The risk to threatened stocks has proven simply to not be there. Will you open a limited fishery from April 1 to May 31, 2022, as requested?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that question.

First, I want to say that as a coastal British Columbian I know how important the recreational fishery is, and it's multiple times the value per fish, in fact, than some of the commercial harvest. We currently do have a mark-selective fishery, a limited set of availability, which is open until the end of May.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Minister, can I just clarify? That specific question is for those areas. They're asking if there's going to be an opening for that time period. Can you just answer that one specifically?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'll ask my officials to answer about specific areas, Mr. Zimmer, but we do have an opening that is until the end of May.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

My time with you here is very limited, so I'll follow through with them on that afterwards.

If you could refer to that letter and the ask and really look at what they're requesting, they've been shut out of the fishery for the last couple of years even though there have been hundreds of millions of marked fish coming up from Washington State that are there to catch—110 million, to be exact—so the opportunities are there. We asked the previous minister, who's no longer here, for the same opportunities, and she wouldn't listen. We're asking that to, hopefully, have more of a hearing from you as a British Columbian.

I'll move on to my next question. This is to speak about what you had talked about: a mark-selective fishery. It's being established in B.C. You talked about there being one, but I'm going to ask a specific question that is from Chris Bos of the South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition: “The whole topic of moving forward”—and this is more of a long-term solution to the problem of salmon stocks that are at risk—“with the transition to Marked Selective Chinook and Coho Fishing is probably most important to the long-term survival of the Public Salmon Fishery in B.C. Marking all the hatchery Chinook and Coho must start as soon as possible as it will take several years before those clipped juvenile fish will come back as marked adults to the fishery.”

Three to five years is the turnaround, even if we get started today, Minister.

The B.C. government has said to get going on a mark-selective fishery. Twenty-five members of Parliament from all parties, including my colleague Mel Arnold, signed that letter asking for a mark-selective fishery. The Cohen commission's recommendation 30—I have it here—calls on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to establish a mark-selective fishery. When are we actually going to see that happen, Minister?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that question.

We're going to see some results of our study of the pilot on mark-selective fisheries. The reality is that while this is something that has been asked for—yes—it also can have detrimental effects on very vulnerable chinook stock because of the mortality levels of the wild salmon that are caught during a mark-selective fishery. We do need to be very careful how this is applied, and we are doing the research now on what the experimental or pilot mark-selective fishery is telling us in terms of whether it conserves or it creates extra pressure on the vulnerable stock.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

We've actually had evidence, which I produced for the last Parliament, that said that the fish mortality rates of even caught fish is very low. The mortality rate is extremely low.

You talked about a pilot program running in B.C. now. Can you give us more details of what that actually looks like? A lot of the angling community in B.C. doesn't have any idea of what this pilot program is. I would suggest these should be the folks who are actually.... They're the conservationists who are on the river in hip waders on the weekends picking up garbage. They should be part of this pilot program. I'm a little concerned that they're not part of it.

Could you maybe explain what that looks like?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that question.

We do consult with stakeholders and indigenous communities in everything we do as a ministry.

The very vulnerable chinook stocks have about a 20% mortality when they are fished in a mark-selective fishery. We need to think about where we are having the mark-selective fisheries and at what time, so there is not an interception of the wild stocks that are too frail to be fished.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

When they're in holding pens, survivability goes way up.

Thank you, Minister, for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Your time is now a little bit over.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing today.

I know from your previous work that you are invested in conservation and indigenous and community consultation, as you have referred to already in this meeting.

We've also referred already to the Pacific salmon strategy. You were able to reiterate this as a priority for you. It's a priority for me as well. I'm representing Yukon. I was reassured from our earlier meeting with officials that consultation is under way.

I'd like to hear from you, as minister, about your engagement and work with Yukon partners, both at present and [Technical difficulty—Editor] indigenous leaders about implementation of the Pacific salmon strategy as it applies to Yukon.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that question.

When you were saying that I am known to be consulting, that's true. I also want to mention that as a former tree planter I have a great deal of appreciation and respect for the work of fishers out in the elements, in good weather and bad, doing the hard work to provide for their families and their local economies. I do appreciate the work of fishers.

I understand that there are huge challenges to the salmon fishery in Yukon. Within the first few weeks of being minister, I met with leadership—the environment minister and others—from Yukon and heard about those concerns. Yes, the Pacific salmon initiative will certainly be addressing concerns of the salmon stocks in Yukon. I look forward to this initiative being ready to roll out in the months to come.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Minister, in your mandate letter you were directed to support community shoreline and oceans plastic cleanup efforts. I'm interested in what steps you and your department are looking at in order to carry this out.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that.

It's so important to fish and to fishers that we have healthy oceans. Ten million dollars to remove ghost gear from the oceans has removed some 1,300 tonnes of ghost gear and hundreds of kilometres of lengths of rope. We intend to continue with the ghost gear program to pull this out of the water as well as to make sure that our regulations are such that less debris goes in the water. For example, in the shellfish aquaculture industry on the west coast, we're looking at regulatory changes to prevent that debris from being on the coast.

The change from using styrofoam in docks is also an important one because styrofoam has a very detrimental impact on fish. When it gets ground into small bits, the fish eat it thinking it's food and then, with full stomachs of non-nutritious substance, they starve.

We're taking a lot of measures. It's an important issue. Thanks for raising it.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I know that in your previous life as a provincial minister in B.C., you introduced the first comprehensive strategy for total product recycling stewardship, including requiring that producers assume responsibilities for removing products from the waste stream.

In your opinion is this akin to making polluters pay, and are you looking at a similar approach, in your current role, for tackling plastic pollution, particularly microplastics?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that question.

Indeed, it's true that I did introduce the first producer responsibility framework for products that are harmful in the waste stream.

Plastic is a national issue that goes beyond the fisheries ministry, so I am working with the environment minister on this, and I think producer responsibility for waste is an excellent way to go. I am certainly a champion of that model, and it's a great point that with plastics and styrofoam and gear, that could also be a way forward. I appreciate your raising that.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley. Your time is up.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.