Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

He's not waiting for an answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Excuse me, Mr. Fisher. Please don't interrupt.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, let's look at this as a really strong opportunity to ask questions, which Mr. Perkins is doing, but also to allow the minister a few moments to answer the question. That's the least all of us could ask for. That's what Canadians want. That's what fishers want—anyone who touches this file.

Let's look at asking substantial questions to get meaningful answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Continue, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

That was not a point of order, in my opinion.

I've given the minister an opportunity to answer the question. She avoids the question.

Why did the fish harvester benefit say that you were self-employed, as one option—and there are five options—and that you were a shareperson, as the other, if it wasn't intended for fishermen of that nature to be included by the benefit?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Perkins, this benefit was stood up very quickly to get money into fish harvesters' hands who were not eligible for CERB, and that's what it has done. The department has asked for funds back from those who applied who were not the intended recipients of this particular benefit.

During the COVID period, whether it was CERB or other kinds of wage subsidies, the government had to act very quickly, which sometimes meant not as thoroughly as if we were spending six months to a year to put all the parameters and policies of the program in place.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Then you shouldn't be clawing it back from them if you screwed up on the application process. It isn't fishermen who should be paying for it. It should be the department.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

May I also add that this was intended for fishers whose earnings had a significant decrease. We didn't have that information at the front end. That's why the fish harvesters needed to put the information in afterwards as to what their decline in wages was. In some cases, there wasn't a decline in earnings, so that's where the funds needed to be—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have emails from fishermen who had it clawed back, who had a 90% decline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. Your time is gone. I did allow for the time for the intervention for the point of order by Mr. Fisher.

We will now go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

Through you, Chair, just as a clarification, when you use the term “share of the catch” or “percentage of the catch”, the fisherman has the option of having interpreted in two ways for the benefit of EI. A percentage of the catch can allow you to collect labour EI benefits or seasonal EI benefits. If the fisher chose to be insured as a labourer, then they were not eligible under the program that we put in place. There was no confusion. It was very clear. You cannot claim as a fisher if you choose to consider yourself a labourer. That's allowed in fishery through the special fishing EI benefit in the act as well as labour. There was no confusion.

Minister, thanks for appearing. The record will show, since we've been in government, ministers have appeared every time this committee requested. This was not the case with the former government. That minister appeared rarely before the committee.

I want to actually examine things important to our fishers.

In your opening statement you made a timely comment, “source of sustainable rural economic” development.

Madam Minister, yes, the lifeblood of rural coastal communities is the fishery. If you could, I want you to inform the committee how our government has enhanced the efforts in protection, because if we do not have adequate protection of the fishery resources, then the sustainability of those coastal communities are undermined.

Could you briefly advise me on how we have increased the department's capacity to protect the very valuable fishery resources our coastal communities depend on?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that question, Mr. Morrissey.

I think all Canadians on all sides of the House want to see the fisheries and the local fish harvesters and their communities have a long-term ability to earn a living from the sea.

As you point out, that is about protecting the viability of the stocks. Our government has been very focused on that with a number of programs. We are focused on coastal restoration, so that, where habitats are a challenge for fish stocks, we can restore those habitats and restore the stocks. We're focused on fisheries that are feeble. Unfortunately, some of our fisheries are feeble. The allowable catch is lower in those cases and sometimes in a moratorium, as we've seen with the redfish for many years.

We have a number of additional compliance and enforcement officers to make sure that the illegal and unregulated fishery is addressed, whether it is in our local communities or on the high seas. There are a number of tools. We want these stocks to be available for coastal communities for the long term.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Minister, just quickly, could you provide the committee with the actual number of additional protection officers our government has hired in the department?

It's an area I long lobbied for and advocated. You may not have it, but could you provide the committee the actual additional numbers of protection personnel?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I will ask my officials to provide that.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

I'm turning my time over to Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to MP Morrissey.

Minister, thank you for being here, and to the department, thank you as well.

The government has committed to conserving about 25%, I believe, of our lands and waters by 2025 and 30% by 2030. We know that this will halt and reverse nature loss, protect biodiversity and build climate change resilience across the country.

Can you explain to us, Minister, what has been done to date on this? What steps are you taking to reach these goals in terms of reaching out to the stakeholders who are involved, namely, fishers and other ocean stakeholders?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for the question on this very important program.

When we were elected as government, about 1% of ocean areas were in marine protected areas, and I know that Canadians are happy to hear that there are now 14% of our ocean areas under marine protected area status. We're aiming, of course, for 30% by 2030.

These protected areas will not be eliminating fisheries opportunities. In fact, the four key measures that will not be allowed in a marine protected area are things like deep-sea ocean mining, oil and gas development, dumping of waste and those kinds of matters. We are working very closely with aboriginal partners. It's a key part of our indigenous reconciliation commitment to not just partner with indigenous communities but actually to invite their science to be some of the bedrock of our approach to these matters.

This program is also incredibly important in the Arctic as it provides opportunities for indigenous people. We are making great progress. This will be a way to also do science to understand the impacts of climate change on the oceans, as well as the ocean's ability to help mitigate climate change. I'm looking forward to the Oceans Act amendments that will address climate change in our oceans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens, for six minutes or less please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the minister and her officials for being with us.

We're conducting a study on labelling and traceability. This is one of the topics I proposed to the committee.

The witnesses we're hearing from are discovering that there are big differences in the criteria for quality, responsible fishing and even safety, depending on whether the product is an import or export.

What do you think of these differences, Madam Minister? Do they put Canadian fishers at a disadvantage compared to EU imports and exports?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'm sorry, but I didn't quite understand your question, so I'm going to ask one of my officials to answer you.

[Timothy Sargent, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Canada must show leadership in traceability to ensure sustainable fisheries and the long‑term prosperity of the seafood sector.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada is working with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Agriculture and Agri‑Food Canada to implement a boat‑to‑plate traceability program.

Stakeholders from various sectors submitted comments during public consultations that ended in December 2021. The government is reviewing these observations.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Minister, are you open to the idea of creating a working group that would bring together representatives not only from various departments, but also from fisheries organizations and certain important industries? For example, we could work on implementing a concrete traceability and labelling plan. We could even create a position of auditor general for traceability and labelling.

What do you think, Madam Minister?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

There will be representatives from several departments around the table.

I'm glad you asked me this important question. I think traceability and labelling will reduce illegal fishing activities.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I think the idea of having an auditor general responsible for traceability and labelling is interesting for the future. Are you open to that idea?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I won't get into those kinds of details right now, because the development of this initiative has just started, but I think it's a good idea.