Fisheries Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Sargent, do you agree with the minister's earlier assertation today that the geographical location of the scientists determines the neutrality of their science and that scientists in B.C. are not well suited to examining issues in B.C. or the Pacific?

Do you agree with the minister's assertation?

[Timothy Sargent]

I'm not sure I understood the minister's remarks in that way. I'm not sure what the verbatim statement was.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

We're not getting very far on that one.

Mr. Sargent, earlier in these meetings, the minister made a point of highlighting the government's investments in DFO's science in the 42nd Parliament.

When the increased investment in science was announced, I was happy to see it, but I've repeatedly been disappointed by the absence of results. Science funding was restored, but major stocks, including the Pacific salmon, are worse now than they have ever been. Nearly 10% of Canadian fish stocks have no integrated fisheries management plan. Only 21% of stocks in the critical zone have rebuilding plans in place and 33 stocks are in critical condition.

These gaps are very concerning. Why do they exist?

[Timothy Sargent]

You started out by asking about the money we've received for science and how that's affected our fish management decisions.

Maybe I'll ask our ADM on science, Arran McPherson, to talk a little bit about what we've been doing with that money and how it links to fisheries.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

No, I'm asking why there are still gaps. Why are the IFMPs not completed?

[Timothy Sargent]

We have a lot of work to do with the rebuilding plans. We know this. Science work is part of it, but that's not the only part of it. We have to consult with stakeholders. It's a lengthy process. We're affecting the livelihoods of a lot of people here.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'll note your answer there. If you can provide it in writing to the committee after, we would appreciate it. I want to quickly move on to some further questions.

This question will be for Mr. Davis.

Last December, DFO issued a decision to reduce B.C. commercial crab harvest opportunities by 50% in harvest area E. This decision blindsided the B.C. crab harvesters and their families, some of whom have been harvesting for generations. The decision also blindsided coastal communities.

The area E harvesters were supposed to begin this season on April 1, which is in 43 days. In December, DFO told harvesters that DFO was making their best efforts to mitigate the impacts of the commercial crab sector. How has your department mitigated the impacts of your decision for B.C.'s crab harvesters?

[Neil Davis, Regional Director, Fisheries Management Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you for the question.

We are in a difficult spot with this one. I think the reference is to the five nations on the west coast of Vancouver Island who have a court-defined right to sell all species except geoduck.

A court of appeal decision came out last spring, which directed the—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

What mitigation efforts have been made?

[Neil Davis]

We have reviewed the allocations that we think we are obligated to provide to the five nations rights-based fishery and proposed an increase to their allocation. We completed that analysis in the fall. As soon as that analysis was complete, we communicated to both the five nations and industry.

In our communications with industry, we laid out a couple of potential options for mitigating the impacts in the short term. These included moving forward the area reselection process that would allow licence-holders currently in that area to move elsewhere and also to provide some flexibility on how they—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Fishermen [Inaudible—Editor] greater fishing pressure on other regions. It's not true mitigation, not from what we've heard from the harvesters.

I have one final—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Your time has gone over, Mr. Arnold. I'm sorry about that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with Ms. Barron of the NDP. In fact, she's going to get most of this time, because I just wanted to make a couple of comments to the officials.

We have two very important studies coming up. DFO has to be ready for them. Almost two years ago, the department was thoroughly high-centred when questioned on the issue of the science behind the pinniped issue on both the east coast and west coast. You need to be ready when that study comes along with whatever science tells us—good, bad or indifferent. You do need to be ready for that.

The second one has to do with, again, a very important and necessary study that we've been trying to get done for I think a couple of Parliaments now. That's on illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing. The Conservative motion calls for a review of this whole issue, not just on the ocean but upriver as well. DFO is going to need to be ready to talk to us about enforcement efforts, about what they see and about whether there are conflicts and gaps between the social, cultural and food fishery that first nations are engaged with versus what could be legitimately described as an illegal fishery.

I just wanted to put the officials on notice that those two areas will be a focus of questions from me and I'm sure from the others.

With that, Mr. Chair, I'd like to turn the rest of my time over to Ms. Barron.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

You have just over three minutes, Ms. Barron.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hardie, for sharing your time. I will gladly take this time to ask some more of my questions.

Deputy Minister Sargent, I believe my question would be best suited for you. In 2018 the Liberal government supported an NDP motion, M-151, which was a call to combat plastic pollution in Canada's marine environments. This call included the industrial use of plastics, as we see in the shellfish aquaculture industry. Industry is a major source of microplastics and marine debris along the coasts of Vancouver Island.

I'm wondering why we're not seeing more action from this government to make sure that Canada's rapidly growing shellfish aquaculture industry is less reliant on plastics in our waters.

[Timothy Sargent]

I'll direct that one to Alex Dostal, ADM of aquatic ecosystems.

Go ahead, Alex.

[Alexandra Dostal]

Great.

Thank you so much for the question. With respect to debris coming from shellfish aquaculture operators, in British Columbia, where we are the lead regulators, the conditions of licence that shellfish operators operate under actually have conditions with respect to ensuring that debris is not emanating from their shellfish operations.

Moreover, I'd also like to mention that in terms of efforts that the department has undertaken in this regard, we have the fisheries and aquaculture clean technology adoption program. This is a program that helps enhance environmental opportunities for aquaculture, including shellfish operators. Two projects that we funded under that have to do with providing funding to allow shellfish operators to be able to remove styrofoam, which has the risk, as you mentioned, of creating debris, and replace that with plastic billets, which don't have the same debris.

I just wanted to bring that to the attention of the members of the committee.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

As the plastics are being changed over to other options, as you talked about, how is that going to be monitored among those in the industry? I'm hearing that a monitoring mechanism is required in order to ensure that the plastics are being reduced in the waters, and to make sure that we don't have plastic ghost gear, for example, being left to drift in the waters because it's the easier thing to do.

[Timothy Sargent]

I can jump in on that one.

We have a dedicated C and P unit on aquaculture that's watching this issue very closely.

Mr. Chair, with your indulgence, it was asked earlier how many C and P officers have been added since the government came to power in 2015. That number is approximately 300 additional C and P officers.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

As we know, the recreational fishery on Vancouver Island is a significant economic driver. I've heard recently from Vancouver Island chamber alliance, who I know wrote to you to highlight the dual impacts of COVID-19 restrictions and salmon fishery closures. I'm in complete support of a cautious approach, of course, to conservation, but workers in this industry are worried about decisions that will impact their livelihoods. These workers are asking for more transparency to ensure that they can be a meaningful partner in this important decision.

I'm wondering if you could speak today to how the department is working to promote meaningful dialogue with the impacted workers and businesses on Vancouver Island.

[Timothy Sargent]

Just to clarify, is this about aquaculture or recreational fishing?

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

It's recreational fishing.

[Timothy Sargent]

Thanks for the clarification.

Neil, do you want to take this one on?