Fisheries Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Claire Canet]

No, there is none that I'm aware of.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. You're dead on your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, again, to the witnesses. I really appreciate your presence here. I'm learning a lot.

Actually, I had a similar question to Mr. Arnold. Maybe I will follow up on that question with Madame Canet. This is a method that applies, obviously, very well to lobsters, but could you expand on how this model has been taken up by other lobster fisheries, or not, and for other species?

[Claire Canet]

This model was attempted quite a few years ago by the Magdalen Islands fisheries, but they didn't pursue it because it is relatively costly and has quite a lot of implications for the fishermen in the beginning. It is also costly to provide them [Inaudible—Editor], etc. I'm aware that some traceability systems have been attempted in Nova Scotia, and also in British Columbia, but more at the distribution level.

For other species, I'm not aware of anything that was put in place at all, but maybe you could clarify your question a bit, sorry.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

No, I think that was right on. Thank you.

Madame Leclerc, I'd like to know a little more about how you use the DNA testing, and how that compares to, say, DNA testing by CFIA and perhaps other organizations.

[Alexandra Leclerc]

DNA testing programs have been developed to identify product risk using several criteria to determine whether a product is at high or low risk of fraud. For example, a whole fish is at lower risk than a fillet or a portion. This risk level determines sampling frequency. We do not conduct the DNA tests. We send the samples to a lab, which does the tests for us and verifies the Latin scientific name of the species stated by our suppliers.

Our process is very similar to those of the CFIA and other organizations with national DNA testing programs. We use exactly the same technology to ensure that the data are accurate.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Madame Leclerc, when you go back to 2010, what led you to taking this on? Presumably it was giving you some market advantage.

How much uptake have you seen by other chains? What advice would you offer them in starting up?

[Alexandra Leclerc]

I believe that Metro did something that proved to be very helpful in 2010 when it hired an oceanography specialist, a marine scientist. This specialist had university training in the field. I would advise other Canadian retailers to hire someone familiar with the subject. It proved to be very helpful to Metro when it was developing the program and implementing it in the stores.

As for why Metro decided to adopt a policy of this kind, it was an idea that had certainly been on its radar for several years. The fish and seafood category is more complex than others simply because of the astronomical number of species. Working with various outside stakeholders, some of which were non-governmental organizations, made it possible to develop the policy that was introduced in 2010.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

You have about 10 seconds left. I don't think you'll get in a question and an answer in that length of time.

We'll now go to Monsieur Garon for two and a half minutes, please.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

I will let our two witnesses decide who's going to answer my question. Perhaps both will be able to do so if there's enough time.

I'd like to say very sincerely that consumers are lucky to have pioneering businesses and organizations like yours that have worked hard on traceability. I believe that it's much more than a marketing issue. It's much more complex than attaching a small tag to a lobster. Traceability is bound up with issues like consumer confidence in the marketplace, the stimulation of economic activity in the regions, and public health. It suggests that in spite of the commercial and private role that you have decided to shoulder, the federal government nevertheless has an important role to play in improving traceability systems.

What major measure or improvement should be introduced by the federal government at this time, and what form should it take?

[Claire Canet]

One of the most important things to do in the immediate future is to really promote the domestic market and develop shorter supply chains that provide a higher level of traceability. The fewer intermediaries between the fishers and the final consumer, the easier it is to track the various transitional steps for the fish.

Not only that, but promoting the local market can also improve information on product provenance. I'll give you a simple example for lobster. Early in the season, lobsters come from Quebec, including the Magdalen Islands and Gaspé. As the season advances, for reasons unknown to us, the processors begin to sell processed lobster, by which I mean cooked rather than live. We have no idea why they do this, but all of a sudden, consumers no longer want live lobster. That's when there are lobster imports from the United States and all the catches are mixed together.

If the federal and provincial governments were to promote shorter supply chains that would allow for the delivery of live or extremely fresh products that are processed as little as possible, it would certainly facilitate product traceability that consumers could trust.

Existing systems could be introduced to develop these shorter supply chains. It could also be done for smaller quantities, because high volumes are a challenges. Quebec fisheries are based on high-volume fishing. To distribute products, it's always easier to send them to a large processing plant that mixes all the catches. By introducing distribution systems for smaller volumes, shorter supply circuits could be developed that would limit the number of intermediaries.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that. We've gone a good bit over, but we'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

My question is for Madame Leclerc. Can you expand a bit? I was listening to you speak about the legislation in place that results in some of your products from national brand products that.... There's a recommendation that they have that labelling in place, but it is not a requirement because of all these pieces.

Can you speak a little more about how having clear legislation in place might be of support, if at all, to you at Metro, having that harmonization and how that might impact you specifically in your role?

[Alexandra Leclerc]

One thing is certain, and that is that if the traceability label on the packaging were to become a legal requirement, suppliers would have to be able to prove or document this traceability. Of course if the information is stored and they don't have to request it from their suppliers and the various intermediaries in the supply chain, our task of evaluating and requesting traceability information would be simplified.

As Ms. Canet mentioned, this can sometimes be a very burdensome task. For the average consumer, being able to identify the traceability of all these products, whether private or national brands, or even fish counter sales, definitely adds value because it helps them make a well-informed decision.

We can raise consumer awareness, and at the same time address their knowledge and personal values.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I'll see if I can sneak one more in to Madame Canet.

Could you speak a bit around your thoughts on how these steps that you've put in place have helped to protect the ecosystem, which is such an essential piece of what we're talking about here? Are there any environmental pieces that you've seen? Do you have any thoughts around that?

[Claire Canet]

The system that we have put in place is within a global approach that we have for our lobster fisheries. The purpose is obviously to protect the environment that our fishermen are working within, and also to protect their future. Fishermen don't have any control over the prices and so on, so it was essential for them to have a global approach to support their stocks and their environment, to get the MSC certification and put that forward as a guarantee for the end consumer, because that represents a lot of investments, millions of dollars over the years from the fishermen to put those first traceability steps and identification of origin for the end consumer. That is part of a global approach that we have, environmental and economical, for our fishermen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron. Of course, your time is up.

That concludes our first hour of testimony. To get into another five-minute round would certainly put us way over for the next session. We have three more witnesses waiting to start.

I thank both witnesses today for their co-operation and appearing before the committee, albeit by Zoom.

We'll recess for a couple of minutes to switch over from one panel to the next.

Thanks again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Before we start with our panel, I would like to make a few comments.

When you are ready to speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. When speaking, please speak clearly and slowly.

I now welcome our second panel of witnesses.

From the Marine Stewardship Council, we have Kurtis Hayne, program director.

From the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, we have Mr. Bobby Jenkins, president; Molly Aylward, executive director; and Ian MacPherson, senior adviser, who has been several times before and is no stranger to this committee.

From SeaChoice, we have Christina Callegari, sustainable seafood coordinator.

Okay, Mr. Jenkins is not here. My note said he was, but that's one less to worry about.

We'll go to our witnesses for their opening remarks, starting with Mr. Hayne for five minutes or less, please.

[Kurtis Hayne, Program Director, Canada, Marine Stewardship Council]

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for the opportunity to provide input to this committee. My name is Kurtis Hayne and I am program director for the Marine Stewardship Council in Canada. I'm speaking to you from Victoria, British Columbia.

The MSC is a global non-profit organization that works to end overfishing around the world. We work with scientists, fisheries, industry experts and other non-profits. Our goal is to improve the way the ocean is fished through our MSC fisheries and our chain of custody standards. The MSC program incentivizes sustainable fishing practices globally. The MSC program is the most recognized sustainable seafood certification in Canada and the world.

Supply chain businesses handling MSC seafood must meet our MSC chain of custody standard. It's a traceability standard that ensures that fish and seafood sold with the blue label has come from fisheries certified as sustainable against the MSC fisheries standard.

Our chain of custody program is a rigorous and independent verification system that follows seafood with the MSC blue fish label from the fishery to the final consumer. It requires that all companies involved in the purchase, processing or sale are certified and submit to third party annual audits for traceability.

MSC seafood is accurately labelled, enabling consumers to make an informed choice and [Technical difficulty—Editor] fraud. DNA testing has shown that species mislabelling for MSC seafood is less than 1%, which is much lower than studies that the committee has heard about for other seafood products and other global estimates of mislabelling rates.

We regularly monitor MSC-labelled products for integrity and run investigations that trace products back through the supply chain. Unannounced audits of certificate holders are built into our program.

Participation in the program is voluntary. The fisheries and companies that are MSC certified do it of their own accord and are committed to and invested in meeting our standard. There are 327 chain of custody certificates across Canada covering over 1,850 different locations that are audited for traceability for MSC certified seafood. This represents over 400 different products labelled with the MSC ecolabel that were sold to Canadian consumers last year. Despite this, there are still gaps in coverage for certified seafood in Canada, particularly in the food service sector.

The MSC's research also shows that Canadians want to know that their seafood is traceable. [Technical difficulty—Editor] consumers want to know that the fish they buy can be traced to a known and trusted source. We believe that supply chain assurance and traceability systems should be a requirement for credible claims of sustainability. We support the ongoing advancement of traceability efforts, as they're essential to providing legal, sustainable and correctly labelled seafood for Canadian consumers and enabling Canadians to sell seafood into international markets.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide input. I welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll go to Mr. MacPherson first. Are you splitting your time?

[Ian MacPherson, Senior Advisor, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association]

Yes. Thanks very much, Chair.

The Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association appreciates the invitation and opportunity to address the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans and to speak to the important topic of traceability of fish and seafood products.

The PEIFA represents over 1,275 captains who make up our island inshore fleet. Our captains have significant investments in their operations and take great pride in being the first part of the supply chain, delivering high-quality seafood to domestic and offshore markets.

The fishery in Canada is heavily regulated, with conservation of the resource being a cornerstone to ensure that future generations can participate in this lifestyle and career.

We feel that the traceability of seafood is important in terms of keeping our high-calibre, international reputation intact; ensuring that lower- and higher-value species are not over-exploited; preserving international sustainability certifications; and elevating consumer confidence in the seafood products they purchase at the retail level.

Our ocean ecosystem must strike a delicate balance and maintain a food chain pyramid that allows all species to survive. Some of the plentiful but lower-value species cannot be overfished, or this balance will be disrupted.

For the past six years, the PEIFA has been developing an electronic log application that can be used by island fishers to replace the current catch data method of paper logbooks. Once implemented, the e-logs will provide real-time data on primary catches and bycatch. It is our understanding that for some species, current system information is not completely captured and summarized for up to six months after the closure of a particular fishing season.

The PEIFA has invested extensive time and resources into this app so that harvesters can access a unit that not only meets the Department of Fisheries and Oceans parameters for function, but is user friendly and offered at a reasonable cost to the fishers. It is critical that fishers be involved in the process of knowing where their catch data goes, who has access to the data and where the data is stored.

Molly.

[Molly Aylward, Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association]

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Ian.

In addition to improved data collection, it's imperative that DFO and the Government of Canada recognize the contribution by independent owner-operators in terms of food security. As the past two years have shown us, supply chains can be disrupted at a moment's notice. It is incumbent that we maintain seafood supplies for Canadians. Independent owner-operators are the best way to keep the resource and the benefits in local communities.

The past two years have also shown us that the worldwide demand for seafood is unprecedented. High demand for product can be a double-edged sword in that, although an improved price has been paid to fishers and others in the supply chain, the pressure to overfish a stock or fish a stock illegally can occur without proper monitoring and enforcement.

A significant majority of fishers seek two important things. One is that they be paid a fair and financially sustainable amount for their product. The second is that the resources be responsibly managed so that current and future fishers may remain viable in an industry that they know and love.

Although unreported catches do not seem to be an extensive problem on Prince Edward Island, we are concerned that this is a growing problem that industry and provincial and federal governments need to find effective solutions for. The PEIFA has been and continues to be a vocal advocate for consistent and widespread enforcement of all resource-related offences under the Fisheries Act.

Various sectors of the industry are working towards bringing stability to the sector after many years of financial returns that were insufficient for harvesters and other parts of the supply chain. This sustainability can be achieved only by ensuring that our resources are protected and that all fishers are recording all catches in an established and consistent manner.

The outlook for the future will remain positive if our stocks are protected and if data is collected and managed in a responsible and consistent manner for all species and fishers. By doing this, we can ensure the prosperity of the current fishery in both the short term and the long term.

This concludes our opening remarks. We'd be pleased to answer any questions that the committee may have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll move right into our questioning.

I'll go to Mr. Perkins first, for six minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for appearing.... Oh, we have another witness.