Fisheries Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. Your time is up.

We're moving on now to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Collin, I want to go back to the issue of the fishery in Quebec.

The mackerel and herring fishery, which is your fishery and is closed, was a measured and measurable fishery.

What would be the solution for you to stay alive?

Could we suggest a sentinel fishery for you, using a hook and line, for example, which would have a lesser impact on the resource and would be much more habitat-friendly? We could even compensate you for your trouble.

Instead of offering you monetary compensation, we could pay you to take measurements, participate in a sentinel fishery and earn a modest living, while continuing to take appropriate measurements.

Is that a solution that appeals to you?

[Ghislain Collin]

Yes, it's a measure that could easily be implemented. Our fishers are already equipped. They already have all the necessary equipment and expertise for a selective hook and line fishery that's respectful of the resource.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That would keep you afloat and let you continue using your expertise and know-how. You could stay on the water.

Couldn't you?

[Ghislain Collin]

To that we could add other types of fishing, scientific or exploratory fishing, for example, even the development of new products and the discovery of emerging species.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I see.

Could those types of fishing also improve our understanding of the resource's behaviour? It seems that mackerel move around.

Is that correct?

[Ghislain Collin]

We're seeing that now for [Technical Difficulty—Editor] of mackerel. You now have mackerel in places where they previously weren't found in large quantities.

So biomass is now shifting as a result of water temperature. Mackerel have moved slightly more to the north. That's all. Fishers can go get them there.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

The same rules should also apply fairly to everyone, to Quebeckers and to fishers from the rest of Canada.

Shouldn't they?

[Ghislain Collin]

[Technical Difficulty—Editor] to have a sustainable fishery and that[Inaudible—Editor] that we'll be able to leave to future generations. Everyone should abide by the same rules as we do, particularly as regards mandatory reporting, hail-ins and dockside weighing.

Lastly, I would say that this is the history that Fisheries and Oceans Canada[ Inaudible—Editor] for certain species.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

We haven't heard certain words—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you.

If you're ready, Ms. Barron, it's your time now, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm asking lots of questions. The first thing I want to clarify is that when I say DFO, I'm talking about those in decision-making capacities and also those who are making the decisions around how to allocate funding. Ultimately I know there are lots of good people doing good work in DFO. There is just not capacity to be able to take this on, in many ways. That is a big problem that needs to be resolved, and it needs to be funded appropriately.

What I'm trying to understand and wrap my head around, if I can be frank, is the treaty rights of indigenous peoples and how that plays into this. I don't think I'll go any further into that, only just to state that I have some serious concerns around the fact that we're seeing this repeated pattern in which we have non-indigenous and indigenous people pegged against each other. We have no clear avenue for seeing DFO take the lead on ensuring that everybody has the same information, that everybody is able to work together, and that there are accountability mechanisms that ensure we're conserving this species.

I can definitely empathize with the concerns of those locally who are worried about the species, worried about their livelihoods and worried about their communities.

I just wanted to clarify that.

I'm going to leave it there and pass the remainder of my time over to Madame Desbiens, if that's okay with you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Absolutely. It's your time.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Ms. Barron, thank you for your response. I'm very grateful to you for it.

Mr. Collin, as we all know, the United States also participates in the mackerel fishery.

What troubles you most? Is it the lack of action by Fisheries and Oceans Canada?

Do you sense that the department lacks the resources or power to correct this entire situation, or do you think it isn't interested in fishers from Quebec?

[Ghislain Collin]

What we're seeing now is that the department is completely uninterested in the fishers in my Quebec fleet.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm looking at the relevance of this part of the questions and answers in terms of IUU. I'm wondering if we can get to that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Madame Desbiens, we're almost out of time, but would you like to point to the relevance of the question to the IUU study?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'm trying to understand why the department is doing nothing for Quebec fishers, whereas fishing continues everywhere else.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you very much.

You have about seven seconds for an answer. If more can be provided in writing, we can—

[Ghislain Collin]

What we're asking is for the mackerel fishery to be reopened. If we don't go out and fish, we won't be able to provide data for the scientists and the fishery will quite simply not be reopened. We therefore need to go back and fish for a reopening of the fisheries to be possible.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Moving on to our next series of questions, I'm going back to Mr. Small now, for five minutes, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a very quick question for Mr. King.

When you look at the breakdown of indigenous- and non-indigenous-owned elver licences, what's the percentage of the quota that was harvested by first nations and by non-first nations this past year? I mean just the percentage.

[Stanley King]

Of the overall TAC, 28% is allocated to first nations harvesters. The season was shut down prematurely, so I know that the Wolastoqey band in New Brunswick did not get a chance to fulfill their whole quota. If the season is allowed to remain open until everybody catches their quota, then it's 28% allocated to first nations.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Those first nations suffer because of this poaching.