Fisheries Committee on Feb. 6th, 2024

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay.

I often say this in committee, and it is important for me to mention it: My father was a lobster fisherman all his life. As you said at the outset, in presenting your figures, 72,000 people in Canada depend on the fisheries, and they generate economic benefits of $4.6 billion.

Fishers seem to be losing trust in DFO data. Don't you think it would be beneficial for the department to send more officials out on the water to collect data, in collaboration with fishers' associations, who are on the water every day, in order to have a more accurate picture of the various fish stocks? Some are in trouble, but some may not be as much as you would think.

Do you think there should be more collaboration between the fishers, who are out on the water every day, and the officials, who are in offices every day and don't really see the reality on the ground?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Yes, I agree, for the two reasons I mentioned. First, it would lead to better decisions about the sustainability of fisheries. Second, communities would be more supportive of these decisions if they were reliable and sustainable.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It is important for the committee to understand the reach of your message. I know that my Conservative colleagues seem to blame the government for all the failures and everything that has happened over the past few years, but this has been going on for some time, and I think we have to look to the future.

So, Commissioner, looking to the future, what improvements should be made so that our stocks are managed properly, so that our communities can benefit from these very important resources, so that our fishers can earn a living and, once again, so that our communities can continue to make a living from fishing?

What do you think DFO could do to address the situation involving various fish stocks and the lack of data you talked about?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

In summary, those are the reasons why we made these recommendations in our report. So implementing all our recommendations will improve the situation and the sustainability of fish stocks. That would be the first thing to do. I don't want to come back here in six or seven years and make the same recommendations.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I don't remember all of your recommendations, but I've read a few.

Do you feel that DFO's current resources are sufficient to implement your recommendations, or does it need additional funding?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

More resources are needed to implement our recommendations. Is it necessary across the department, or could the department reallocate existing resources internally? I don't know, as we haven't done a full audit of the department.

However, more resources are indeed needed to implement these recommendations and our 2022 recommendations on species at risk.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Commissioner.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier and Mr. DeMarco.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and half minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In Quebec, we see that our fishers have been exemplary in a number of ways, particularly by providing catch amounts and data, and by meeting the obligation to participate in the dockside monitoring program. Mr. Collin, president of the Regroupement des pêcheurs pélagiques professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie, has often come here to testify to that.

Why can't this obligation that Quebeckers have be extended to all fishers? That could provide more data quite quickly because the fishers are on the ground. Why are Quebeckers the only ones who are required to report on their catch?

When the Department of Fisheries and Oceans makes decisions on the Atlantic side, we often see that those decisions severely penalize Quebeckers. In Quebec, the small fishing economy and small boats support all coastal villages. However, it is these small boats that are often penalized. In addition, Quebeckers are afraid that the larger boats will reproduce what happened 30 years ago. Those are the two things Quebeckers are seeing right now. They are very concerned about that.

How can the situation be improved in the short term?

I emphasize the importance of taking steps in the short term, as it is in the short term that boats will be moored for good. It will be over. It's already over for a number of them.

Mr. Williams, Mr. Napier, Mr. DeMarco, how can things be done differently in the short term?

[Brent Napier]

Thank you for the question.

From an enforcement perspective, those licence holders in Quebec are not the sole licence holders who have to provide catch information. Most other regions do. In fact, in most fisheries, log books are a requirement. The department looks at risk and it looks at conservation to determine what measures need to be in each of those fisheries.

The fisheries monitoring policy will support that activity and look for a more even distribution, potentially, of those sorts of requirements. At this stage, I wouldn't say there's inequality in the way that the department requires Quebec fishers to provide information versus, potentially, other regions.

Maybe Todd has something additional—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Napier. We've actually gone over time for Madame Desbiens.

We'll go to Ms. Barron for the final round.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

My question is perhaps for Mr. DeMarco, and if Mr. Napier has time, he can follow up with some comments. That would be great.

Specifically, what I am reading is that the audit found that no consultation took place with indigenous groups and stakeholders. I'm wondering if you can share your findings around that specific section. A response from Mr. Napier would be great as well.

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Mr. Normand will answer that question.

[David Normand]

In the course of the implementation of the fishery management policy, there is a step of identifying which stocks to prioritize. There is a requirement to consult with first nations. We found that in that context—in the identification of the 22 that were presented in our report—they were not consulted.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Are there any additional thoughts from you, Mr. Napier?

[Brent Napier]

No. Thank you, Chair.

[Todd Williams]

Thank you very much for the question. In fact, it's a very good question, and just two weeks ago I was at the Atlantic Policy Congress in Cape Breton. I was invited to speak at their indigenous fisheries conference, and we spoke about that, the collaboration with indigenous partners on the implementation of the fisheries monitoring program.

There was also a small grants and contributions component that was provided in that funding envelope for indigenous engagement and collaboration in implementing a policy and approving the data that goes into the system.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

My only follow-up question is around how this fits with the indigenous guardians program that we've been talking about throughout the previous study. We were looking at it in terms of the ability to effectively collect data and how we're working alongside indigenous people who are, rightfully so, taking on the stewardship of their land and water.

[Brent Napier]

I can certainly address that question.

The indigenous or aboriginal guardians program, as it's called, refers to fishery guardians under the Fisheries Act. All their powers are vested in there. We have the ability to limit those powers or to use the full extent of them. We're looking now at renewing that entire program. We're looking at training to ensure that proper training is provided to those communities, and in this way we are able to help.

The point of a guardian is to complement and support conservation, so we're very excited about this. There have been some delays in the process, but we're striving to get that done relatively soon.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

That concludes our round of questioning today. I want to thank all of the witnesses for appearing and providing their valuable information and responses.

Our next meeting on Thursday will be a business meeting to discuss committee business.

This meeting is adjourned.