Evidence of meeting #10 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was licence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Shipek Fisheries, Agence Mamu Innu Kakussesht
I don’t know that. I can’t speak to that. I think pressure from other quarters resulted in today’s appearance.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
The motion that was moved, Mr. Vigneault—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I’m going to stop the clock.
Mr. Cormier, you have the floor on a point of order.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I’ll move quickly because I want the witnesses to speak to the issue at hand.
It’s my understanding that Mr. Deschênes has just disclosed discussions that took place in camera. I believe that is prohibited, and he should know that because he’s a lawyer by training.
When we make decisions in camera, be it to pass motions or to add witnesses, the substance of these discussions cannot be disclosed publicly. I don’t want to take up speaking time from the witnesses here today, but what Mr. Deschênes has just done is unacceptable and should be looked at very closely in the next meetings so that this matter can be clarified.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you for that point of order, Mr. Cormier.
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I want to respond very briefly.
This study is a Bloc Québécois initiative and I’m the one that moved a motion for people from the Côte‑Nord to come and testify. Mr. Cormier’s questions are misleading everyone because they suggest that I wanted to gag the very people that I personally invited. We can take time to clarify that later so that we hear the people who are here today.
I’d like to give the floor to Mr. Malec because he didn’t have time to wrap up his original presentation.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It seems that Mr. Deschênes does not understand that it was a breach of parliamentary privilege. Mr. Deschênes is talking about discussions that took place in camera. I’d like the clerk of the committee to look into what happened and for the situation that just transpired to be clarified at the next meeting. We’d like to hear witnesses because their evidence is important to the committee, and we have a limited amount of time to hear a number of witnesses, but what has just transpired is unacceptable.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Cormier.
I’ll consult with the clerk and get back to that at the next meeting, but for now, let’s get back to the witnesses who are here today.
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for approximately five minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Mr. Malec, I suggest you wrap up your opening remarks, which you didn’t have time to complete.
Director, Economic Development, Agence Mamu Innu Kakussesht
The discussions we’ve had pretty much sum up my presentation.
Thank you for giving us time to represent the voices of the Innu from the Côte‑Nord. Reconciliation and economic catch-up are very important issues for us. For many decades, indigenous peoples could not participate in commercial fishery in Nitassinan. We’ve been making submissions for the past 45 years and no government, whether Conservative, Liberal or of any other party, was prepared to make changes. It took 30 years for indigenous peoples to participate in commercial fishery thanks to the Marshall and Sparrow decisions.
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes, and Mr. Chair.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
How did the discussions you had with fishers and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on the attribution of new exploratory licences on the Côte‑Nord, including the quotas allotted to Innu and quotas allotted to non-indigenous people, go?
Director, Economic Development, Agence Mamu Innu Kakussesht
As my colleague Mr. Vigneault noted, there were a number of meetings with fishery groups.
The Côte‑Nord context is different from the Gaspésie or the Maritimes context. Indeed, fishing activity on the Côte‑Nord is fairly limited, and this was a major boost for us. We agreed on a fifty-fifty allocation to achieve economic reconciliation. That was important to us.
With respect to the demographic share, the indigenous birth rate is rather high. On the Côte‑Nord, there is a growing presence of indigenous peoples in cities and villages such as Sept-Îles, Havre‑Saint‑Pierre, and Baie Comeau.
That is what formed the basis of the reconciliation. The discussions took place over several years.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
How did the discussions evolve? Initially, were they between non-indigenous fishers and Innu fishers, with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans coming onside later?
Director, Economic Development, Agence Mamu Innu Kakussesht
There were meeting with fishers. My colleague Guy Vigneault is on a number of committees. There were a great deal of discussions.
The department was determined to have meetings with fishers and with us. There were many meetings, and that’s how the agreements with the department came about.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
If I understand correctly, these agreements were reached by consensus. Were the discussions smooth?
Director, Shipek Fisheries, Agence Mamu Innu Kakussesht
They went very smoothly. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans was asked for many things. There were several meetings with different committees. One of the biggest committees on the Côte‑Nord is the Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels de la Haute et Moyenne Côte‑Nord, of which I’m a member. I attended many meetings with various fishers and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to express our views and secure licences.
We heard different perspectives from indigenous peoples, the Regroupement, and existing lobster fishery groups. We had many discussions and decided to move a recommendation for a fifty-fifty distribution. Nonetheless, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans made the final decision. The department consulted us and then made the decision to grant licences on a fifty-fifty basis.
October 30th, 2025 / 9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes. That brings us to the end of the second panel.
I’d like to thank the witnesses for coming here today and for their important insights on the topic of our study. Their testimony will help us formulate recommendations to the government.
Before we briefly suspend, Mr. Arnold wants to mention something.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Before we go in camera for this meeting, I note that there was a motion duly passed on October 21, which included that we also call the former fisheries ministers Dominic LeBlanc and Diane Lebouthillier, to testify for one hour. For the public record of this request and resulting communications, can you please advise the committee of the progress of that request?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Yes, absolutely, Mr. Arnold. The requests have been sent by the clerk. I'll turn it over to the clerk to speak to it.
The Clerk of the Committee Maxime Ricard
An invite was sent to the former minister, Minister LeBlanc through Global Affairs last week, which was acknowledged, but I have not received a yes or a no yet.
It appears that Ms. Lebouthillier’s contact information is not publicly available. I’ve reached out to a number of different people within the government, and I’ll send her an invitation once I have her contact information.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
As vice-chair and the mover of the amendment to that duly passed motion of this committee, I'd like to repeat the request that former ministers LeBlanc and Lebouthillier appear before the committee and explain why the commitments that were made to harvesters were not honoured. I believe they are the only ones who may know the reasons. Canadians and those harvesters who were affected deserve accountability.