Evidence of meeting #14 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was area.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll go back to Mr. DeMarco and pick up where we left off. The government is stating that establishing more MPAs will aid Canada in fighting climate change. I agree that climate change is an issue, and we all need to do our part in fighting climate change. Is there a way of measuring how creating MPAs will address climate change? How will that be verified?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Scientifically, is there a way of measuring the contribution?
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
I think it needs to be scientifically. It can't be ideologically.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
This isn't something in the audit, but from a conservation perspective, one could measure the amount of carbon being sequestered by the living organisms in a protected area and compare it to a non-protected area and see the incremental difference. That would be one method.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
You can't restrict organisms to stay within artificial boundaries drawn on a map. They move. We've heard at this committee how species move due to water temperature changes and so on that could be affected by climate change. How can it be measured and verified scientifically?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I was just giving an example of a comparison that could be made, but there are a lot of variables at stake, as you've mentioned, in terms of species moving.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Basically, it would be pretty tough to verify.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It would be tough to verify with precision—
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
—but there is no doubt that biomass stores carbon.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
I want to switch now to Ms. Graham.
In your opening remarks, I noted that you did not mention the economic impact or benefits to fisheries nor the communities that depend on them. You've been questioned on that by my colleague, Mr. Gunn.
When the fishers who could be so incredibly impacted by the Northern Shelf bioregion plan submitted their marine planning suggestion, they felt and still feel absolutely betrayed by the department, because the department simply plans to impose restrictions on the areas those fishers identified as the most productive. Why?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In terms of the Northern Shelf bioregion and the marine protected areas that are being forecasted as sites that could potentially advance towards a 2030 target, the socio-economic analysis happens as part of the effort to better understand the measures that will be put in place to quantify, at that moment, what we anticipate those economic impacts to be.
We put forward a plan. To date, all of the boundaries of our 14 established marine protected areas have changed as a result of the consultations we've had with the fishing industry. We have an example of the Homayno marine refuge, where we changed the boundary following consultation with the fishing industry. That allowed us to reduce potential losses by approximately 20 tonnes. That was the result of a good exchange and good collaboration with the fishing industry, helping us understand—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Are you attempting to reassure those harvesters who have identified how significantly and negatively they would be impacted that their input might be heard?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Consultations that we undertake are genuinely meant to better understand the site-specific criteria or conditions in an effort to adjust boundaries to genuinely minimize economic impact.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
That certainly doesn't sound overly reassuring to me, and it probably doesn't to them.
I don't know who might be able to answer this. What are the costs of marine protected areas to non-marine provinces?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
I don't know. It's not something we have measured.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
What are the benefits of marine protected areas to those parts of Canada?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
I don't know if my colleagues from Fisheries and Oceans or from Parks Canada want to respond. From the perspective of Environment and Climate Change Canada, the benefits go back to that headline indicator in terms of trying to address biodiversity loss.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm sorry, but we're just going to have a quick answer, and then we're going to move on to the next questioner.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
From the perspective of the Department of Environment and Climate Change Canada, the biodiversity loss is actually tied back to our statutory obligations under the Species at Risk Act as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much.
Next, we're going to Mr. Connors for five minutes.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you.
There are a lot of questions for you today. Thanks for your patience.
Mr. Millar or Ms. Graham, I want to inquire about activities that are allowed in MPAs, specifically for me in the MCA on the south coast. Would fishing vessels be allowed to pass through that area, and would there be any restrictions?
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
The short answer is yes. Fishing vessels would absolutely be able to pass through that area, as would virtually all vessels in virtually all parts of it.
There could be extremely small areas identified, if the science warrants it, with restrictions on shipping or on vessels, but those would typically be tiny, and there would have to be a very compelling reason that you couldn't have ships in that area.
If you look at other national marine conservation areas, exceedingly small percentages are ever closed to shipping, and it would only be if there's some really dense, localized marine mammal population that warrants it, or something like that. Generally, it would be open to shipping.
Liberal