Evidence of meeting #14 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was area.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
When were they informed of this national marine conservation area that was going to be put on their doorstep? What was the date?
Director, National Marine Conservation Areas Establishment, Parks Canada Agency
We have been doing consultations for the south coast fjords since 2024. We have met with the community 16 times, including all of the ones you've mentioned. We had plans—
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Why would Burgeo be a signatory and Harbour Breton not be a signatory to the MOU?
Director, National Marine Conservation Areas Establishment, Parks Canada Agency
That's a great question.
The proposal for the south coast fjords came to Parks Canada about 20 years ago. It was a proposal brought forward by the town of Burgeo. It was the first time that we had a town actually sign the memorandum of understanding. It was at the request of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, because the proposal had been brought forward by the town of Burgeo.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
The members of the fishing industry have lost trust in the conservation area process. I would rate their trust as zero or one out of 10, based on the ones I know, other than some associations that have their hand out for some Liberal government money. They're going to suck up a little bit, and do what they have to do to keep their gravy train rolling. However, the members have zero trust in this process.
There are foreign-funded activists, like ASF, Ecology Action Centre and CPAWS and the list goes on. They are mostly funded by American sources that are trying to shut down industry and livelihoods here in Canada and on the south coast fjords NMCA.
What regards were given to the livelihoods on the south coast in fish farming and the fishing industry?
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
As Lori was saying, we've been working pretty closely to try to understand the dynamics there and people's interests. We've already taken steps to try to make sure that the NMCA will not have undue impacts on those industries—
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
I have three ounces of bait on a fishhook, a 70-80 pound lobster trap and a crab trap. Which would have the most impact with the bottom?
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Obviously, gear that touches the bottom is more likely to have an impact on the bottom than gear that doesn't.
I would reiterate that an NMCA is not an area closed to fishing. Our expectation is that many of those fisheries that occur there will continue to occur there.
With regard to the fisheries that potentially would be incompatible, we've already worked to try to remove those areas from the study area so that we won't impact them. We'll continue to work with the industry to understand exactly where they're fishing and where their landings are coming from. We'll try to make sure that the national marine conservation area is designed in a way that does not inhibit people from continuing their livelihoods there.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Then why was the fish farming and fishing industry the last to find out? Why didn't they find out right away? They didn't know until I told them, actually. It was pretty sneaky.
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
We have worked with the aquaculture industry. We actually set up a committee with them to advise us on this. We already removed about 30% of the study area to accommodate aquaculture and fishing interests. We've assured them that we'll make sure that this is done in a way that doesn't interrupt their boat traffic.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
The ASF statement, that they're supporting this marine protected area in an effort to shut down fish farming.... They're funded by Pew Charitable Trust, the Hewlett and Packard foundations and whatnot.
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
I don't speak on behalf—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Mr. Small, I'm going to have to cut it off there; we're over time.
Mr. Millar, if you'd like to submit a response to that in writing, please do so.
With that, we're going to go to Mr. Klassen for five minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
Mr. DeMarco, in your report “Establishing Marine Protected Areas”, you state, “A network of marine protected and conserved areas of high ecological value would enable Canada to meet its commitments to the international community and contribute to its goal to halt and reverse biodiversity loss by 2030.”
What would be the implications of Canada failing to meet its commitments to the international community?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It is good to go to the ultimate goal, rather than the specific target, sometimes. The ultimate goal is to halt and reverse biodiversity loss. A tool in the tool kit, one of many targets, is to use protected and conserved areas, but ultimately, 30% is not necessarily going to fit the bill if the rest of the 70% is managed unsustainably. We should keep our eyes on the final goal, which is to halt and reverse biodiversity loss and to actually sustain the economic activity in the oceans.
If you take a long-term view, then I think everyone will be in agreement if you can sustain the fish stocks and have an allowable harvest level that is sustainable in perpetuity, whether that's supported by some source areas in protected areas or not. Then we have a win-win situation. I think that really is the key to the buy-in on these sites—to take that long-term view and recognize that a protected area can help sustain biodiversity, help it recover, halt and reverse biodiversity loss, and also sustain the economic and social fabric of the communities nearby by ensuring that the fish stocks are healthy enough to sustain economic activity and the livelihoods of those who rely on them.
That long-term view, which is the cornerstone of sustainability—socio-economic and environmental.... Looking at all those things together, I think everyone would agree that that's something that we should strive for. Protected areas are a component of that, but they won't halt and reverse biodiversity loss on their own. It requires a sustainable view across the entire waterscape or landscape, depending on where you're talking about.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Perhaps Ms. Graham could answer this one.
Since we haven't met or aren't able to meet 2025 goals, how are we going to shift in order to make sure that we do reach the goals by 2030?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The effort that we've deployed thus far to advance the interim target of 2025 has really positioned us well to be able to make the 2030 target. The effort that we've put into identifying areas where we have partners who are engaged and where we're collaborating very closely with stakeholders to understand the potential economic impacts, is allowing us to advance and have a really strong foundation to move forward towards the 2030 target.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
We're pretty confident that we'll be able to achieve the 2030 goals.
Are there any MPAs where the fishing industry would not be affected at all?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Currently, we have approximately 10 out of 14 MPAs that were found to have little to no measurable economic impact on existing fisheries under the final boundaries that were set as part of the site establishment process.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Would first nations communities be included in those numbers?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
What would be the worst-case scenario we would see on the west coast for the salmon fishing industry?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Unfortunately, I don't have that information unless my colleague, Tracey Sandgathe, has that.
Tracey Sandgathe Regional Director, Ecosystems Management Branch, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I wouldn't consider focusing on the worst-case scenario because we do—like Kathy has mentioned before—our best to reduce the impact of marine protection on fishing, on harvesting. As we move through the progression of establishing sites, it's best to look at the sites we've already established.
On the west coast, we have three marine protected areas that are established. There's some level of fishing in each of those marine protected areas. It really depends on the conservation objectives we are trying to preserve. Again, we tailor the activities or the restriction of activities based on what we're trying to protect.
Going forward, we will do the same thing. We will look again at the objectives for each of the areas of interest we plan to pursue and work with harvesters and all others to reduce the impact to those activities while still meeting our conservation objectives.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much.
That completes our third round.
Moving into the fourth round here, we'll hand the floor to Mr. Arnold for five minutes.