Evidence of meeting #21 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll go back to some of the pieces that the minister refused or failed to answer when she was here.
I want to know how many organizations the federal government provided access to for capacity in the application process.
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
My apologies; I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Is it on the specific organizations to which capacity funding was provided?
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
No. How many organizations did the federal government provide access to for capacity funding for the application?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
At this point, that is part of commercial confidentiality. I know there have been media reports to the effect of the number of folks, but we did engage in NDAs with everybody we provided capacity funding—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
For the two hours that this meeting is going to take place, there is one item on the agenda: the divestiture of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. We have a dozen MPs in the room. We have all of this staff from the department. We had the minister here for an hour, and you can't tell us anything. Is that correct?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indeed, sir, I cannot speak to the specifics of the bidders who receive capacity funding. In—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
We as a committee are asked to make recommendations on this piece of the budget implementation act, and you're providing us with zero information to make recommendations on.
What information can you provide us to make a recommendation on?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The specifics of the amendments that are being requested are around the enabling of the divestiture. At this point, the process has not been concluded. This is to allow, in the event of a successful outcome...while that negotiation continues under commercial confidentiality.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
We have been asked as a committee to make recommendations on the budget implementation act's clauses, and you're telling us you can't give us any information to base a recommendation on. Is that correct, yes or no?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can provide information about the process itself, the rationale and the policy implications.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
That's what I was asking. What can you provide this committee for us to base a recommendation on?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm absolutely happy to go back. As I was talking about regarding the origin of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, the progressive series of withdrawals that were—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
We've seen all that in the talking notes. What can you specifically talk to us about?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can say that we have taken the utmost care here. This is a financial Crown corporation in a negotiation directly with commercial confidentiality. We cannot speak to the bidder's financial implications and who may be involved, out of respect for the process and to ensure that we act in the best interests of Canadians, to whom—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
How can you expect this committee to make a recommendation on the commitment from the government on its website, where it says, “We are committed to ensuring its long-term success”? What kind of a commitment can be made? Is that about funding, or is that about some other process? How can the government commit to something?
We are expected as a committee to make a recommendation on that, yet we have no idea what that commitment is.
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indeed, the amendments that are requested, as I noted, would enable...based on the recommendations that we would bring forward for the divestiture following the conclusion of a successful outcome, if there is a successful outcome, with the preferred bidder, at this point in time.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
You're asking us to make recommendations by just saying, “We'll tell you the details later, but just trust us”, without telling us any information. Is that correct?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The process that was put in place was done in an open and transparent manner. Invitations were sent to all harvesters to participate in those processes and the engagements with provinces and territories as well. What was brought forward to the process, which is now subject to commercial confidentiality, was done in an open, transparent and engaged manner.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
This reminds me of what your government just did around the vaccine mandate information. They've locked up the internal information on that for 15 years. They're saying to trust them until it's all gone away. You're saying to trust you on this decision until it's all gone away.
We are elected representatives who are here to speak to the voices of the people who elect us, and you're refusing us any information to base a recommendation on.
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We are bound by confidentiality, but the Financial Administration Act does require that we seek these amendments at this point in the process, recognizing that it is, as you say...we are in confidence and seeking those amendments in parallel to make sure we don't further delay market access.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
In other words, we've all been brought here today for smoke and mirrors, for nothing, because we can't even discuss what might be in the agreement, where it might go, who might be protected in the future, who might not be protected and who the potential beneficiaries are of some backdoor government deal that says, “We're going to maintain your success in the future regardless.”
In 10 years on this committee, I've never seen the kind of hypocrisy and disrespect for the committee's time that I see in the sham that's going on here today.
Can you provide anything that would help us as a committee make a recommendation on those clauses, other than the basic background information we've seen on the website? We have the analysts doing the best they can to drag out information. Can you provide us anything further on whether we should say yes or no to this divestiture?
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We're very happy to go through each of the clauses and explain what they would enable, if that is of use to members of the committee, recognizing the policy rationale and what's driving it and the engagement that led to this process.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
I don't think we have time for that, but we'd certainly be happy to see it in writing.
Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Absolutely, sir. Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
We'll now go to Mr. Cormier, who is attending the meeting by video conference.
You have the floor for six minutes.