Evidence of meeting #4 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was redfish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are 13 communal exploratory licences in zone 18.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
How many traps are allowed per licence?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are 250 traps per licence in zone 18.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Do the 12 other licences also have 250 traps per licence?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Okay.
We talked earlier about the notice of interest for the Côte‑Nord, which clearly states that indigenous communities aren't required to meet eligibility criteria. You explained why.
Can you explain why, in the notice of interest for zones 17 and 19, these criteria apply to anyone seeking an exploratory fishing licence as an individual, regardless of whether they're indigenous?
Why are indigenous people exempt from meeting the criteria in April, but not in December?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
As I said earlier, the notice of interest for indigenous licences in 2024 concerns communal exploratory licences issued to the first nations.
The eligibility and allocation criteria for individual licences apply to owner‑operators, meaning individuals who own their own fishing business. These individuals may or may not be indigenous.
The eligibility and allocation criteria apply to individual licences, whereas the 2024 notice refers to indigenous communal licences.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you, Ms. Lemire.
I have another question for you.
In zone 19, 55% of exploratory licences are allocated to indigenous people. In zone 18, this figure is 52%, and in zone 17, it's 50%.
In Gaspésie, the three Mi'kmaq communities account for a total of 8,207 people. This means that 9% of the Gaspésie population is indigenous, but they obtain 55% of exploratory licences.
Why do you allocate 55% of exploratory licences to indigenous people?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
One of the department's guidelines for developing the plan was to prioritize the first nations, struggling fleets and the next generation. These instructions were part of the key guidelines given to us for this particular project.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.
Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Since I'm a visitor to your committee and Mr. Deschênes requested this study, I'll give him my time.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you, Mr. Généreux.
Ms. Lemire, I understand the desire to prioritize the first nations and that everyone supports reconciliation. However, why should they be allocated up to 55% of the exploratory licences when they account for only 9% of the Gaspésie population?
Furthermore, why allocate up to 50% of exploratory licences on the Côte‑Nord to the Innu, when they account for only 17% of the population?
In short, why give indigenous people a number of exploratory fishing licences that really exceeds the relative weight of their population?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That percentage relates to a specific project. In terms of exploratory licences, about 50% of the licences were issued to the first nations, and it would be necessary to—
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
—look at the information from a broader perspective by reviewing the data on all the types of fishing licences issued.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I gave you the calculations on the number of traps. In Gaspésie, 55% of exploratory licences were given to indigenous people. On the Côte‑Nord, 52% of exploratory licences were given to them. In Anticosti, the figure is 50%.
My question is the following. Why were they given so many licences?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The first nations were prioritized.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Did you hear that, this summer, exploratory fishing licences issued to indigenous people were used by non‑indigenous fishers because indigenous people received so many licences that they didn't have enough people to fish?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I heard.
Bloc
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indigenous communal licences are issued under the Aboriginal Communal Fishing Licences Regulations. Under these regulations, an indigenous community may designate the fisher of its choice to fish.
Communities have used this option to fish for lobster.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Ms. Lemire, the notices of interest for fishers clearly state that fishers with exploratory licences must fish themselves and that they can't transfer their licences to other people.
Does this rule not apply to indigenous people?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Individual licences aren't issued under the same regulations as communal licences.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
It's still exploratory fishing.
I have another question for you. Were indigenous fishers actually allowed to choose their own fishing zones before the remaining licences were allocated?