Evidence of meeting #4 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was redfish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Mr. Deschênes, your time is up.
We've finished the first round of questions. We'll now begin the second round, starting with the Conservatives.
Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses.
We'll probably have two rounds of questions. With your permission, I would like to address a topic that differs slightly from the topic at hand this morning.
In my constituency and in Montmorency—Charlevoix, on the Côte‑Nord and in Saguenay, you reintroduced a species of fish a number of years ago. This fish is becoming increasingly prevalent and is incredibly ferocious. It eats everything in sight. You have probably recognized this fish. It's the striped bass.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. In Gaspésie, I believe that commercial fishing isn't allowed, but that recreational fishing is permitted, at least. Fish of a certain length may be kept and fishers can keep two fish. In the western part of the region, up to the Quebec City bridge, recreational fishing isn't allowed and fish must be released.
My colleague, Gabriel Hardy, and I wrote yesterday to the minister to request a meeting. We want to know how the Department of Fisheries and Oceans plans to deal with the striped bass. Many recreational fishers and even commercial fishers are realizing the devastating impact of the striped bass in the region, particularly in the river. It's causing a significant decline in the population of a number of other species.
Ms. Lemire, since you're a scientist, you might be in a somewhat better position to tell me what the department plans to do about this.
I may have further questions later.
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm actually here today not as a scientist, but rather as a fisheries management regional director to answer your questions about the lobster data collection plan.
I don't have any information on the striped bass today. This involves aspects related to the Species at Risk Act. I'll take your question under advisement.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Okay.
Did you see the latest report on the striped bass on the show La semaine verte, which aired a few weeks ago?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No. I didn't see it.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Since you work at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, you could bring this issue to the attention of your colleagues. It has become an increasingly significant problem in the St. Lawrence River, in my region. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this matter.
Mr. Chair, I'm not sure how much we can ask our witnesses to provide information on this topic, given that it doesn't relate to our study. Perhaps we could receive a written list of the people to contact. We would be grateful for this.
I'll get back to our main topic. I'm from Saint‑Roch‑des‑Aulnaies, but I was born in La Pocatière, where the Bas‑Saint‑Laurent region begins. Our region is connected to the Bas‑Saint‑Laurent and Gaspésie regions through our local and regional television stations. We've heard over and over again, somewhat through the grapevine, that fishers have been extremely frustrated with the approach to issuing fishing licences, particularly when it comes to the percentage of fishing licences issued to the first nations. Some fishers or even groups of fishers outright believed that Ms. Lebouthillier, the former minister, had prioritized political interests over resource conservation, in some instances.
Do you have any opinion on the fact that these fishers have been quite vocal? In recent years, particularly in the past year and a half, I believe, they have voiced their dissatisfaction with the issuance of these licences.
Have you noticed or seen this too?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
When implementing the plan for knowledge acquisition and development of lobster fisheries, Fisheries and Oceans held many consultations with the first nations and the fishing industry. Throughout the process and the development of the plan, we held a number of consultations with commercial lobster fishers in the affected zones and with members of their representative associations. Individual fishers wrote to us and we took their comments into account. We even took the time to meet with fisheries organizations that contacted us directly. We took their comments into consideration.
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
The plan was implemented in consultation with the industry. It took into account the policies of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO, and analyzed historical examples in particular. We took a range of information into account when implementing the plan.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Généreux.
I'm sorry. I know that five minutes is quite short. However, we'll be meeting with the Minister of Fisheries in two weeks. You can ask her questions, just as you did today. It will be a good opportunity.
Next, we're going to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
My question is for Mr. Williams. You can direct it to either of your colleagues.
Could you provide the committee with a bit of history on past practice within the department on granting experimental and exploratory licences in various species? I'm referencing only the east coast. Am I correct that this is an existing practice?
Senior Director, Fisheries Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That is correct, yes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Could you give the committee a history—let's go back a good way—on the department using this tool to open up new fisheries?
I know my part of Prince Edward Island would have been locked out from crab if we had not been granted this particular process. It has worked out very well for that part of Prince Edward Island.
I want to get some data on the three zones we're referencing, because these zones are on the north coast of the St. Lawrence estuary. Is that correct?
Senior Director, Fisheries Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
September 25th, 2025 / 8:55 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Could you advise the committee on the scale of the commercial fishery that existed in those zones prior to...?
Senior Director, Fisheries Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
With respect to the first question, I can tackle that with a brief history of experimental licences, and then I'll turn to Madame Lemire for the second one with respect to those lobsters.
With respect to experimental fisheries and exploratory fisheries, there is a policy, as referenced earlier, within the department. We normally start with what's called a section 52 licence. That's a licence issued under the general fishery regulations. That allows us to essentially partner with harvesters and others to conduct a fishery to gain more information. This works well in a closed fishery.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I'm familiar with the policy, but I would want to know the history of licences' being made permanent as a result of the process and whatever species the process was used for more so than the policy. I understand the policy, and the legitimacy of it is a pragmatic way, a reasonable way, for the department to both introduce new species to the marketplace and open up areas that have not traditionally been fished.
That's not my question. My question is on results and the licences that are now permanent as a result of that process—where they are in the east coast and for what species. If you could provide the committee with that information.... I know you wouldn't have it today.
The second part is to advise the committee on the scope of a commercial lobster fishery that existed in the three zones that were referenced—zones 17, 18 and 19—the size of that. Do you have that information, or does one of your colleagues?
Senior Director, Fisheries Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Madame Lemire.
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can answer that question.
In zone 18, the first zone where the exploratory fishing project began, there are currently eight commercial fisheries. This zone covers about 700 kilometres of coastline. In zone 19, there are eight commercial fisheries for about 450 kilometres of coastline. In zone 17, there are 16 commercial fisheries for about 500 kilometres of coastline.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you.
If you could provide to the committee the effort they would be utilizing, how many traps they would be using per fisher, and the last seasonal catch average per fisher in these zones, it will allow the committee to determine to some degree and to validate whether it is an area that is benefiting from climate change as the habitat improves and as the resource improves—and, therefore, the ability for more to benefit from exploiting.... Could you do that?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We'll need to gather the information together and send it to you later.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Morrissey.
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Lemire, you spoke earlier about signals of abundance. The regional plan for knowledge acquisition and development of lobster fisheries in zones 19 and 17 was prepared by your department in January 2025. However, the plan states that, in part of zone 19, exploratory fishing “followed experimental fishing carried out between 2018 and 2022.” It also states that no data on lobster is available in four other sub‑areas, specifically sub‑areas 19A1‑A, 19A1‑B, 19A1‑C and 19A1‑F. This covers 140 kilometres of coastline between Rimouski and Capucins.
You had no scientific data to determine whether the resource was ready to accommodate these new exploratory licences. Is that right?
Fisheries Management and Aquaculture Regional Director, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Given that there had never been any fishing in certain sub‑areas, the plan was developed using a cautious approach. It was implemented in phases, gradually. That way, if any negative signals had been observed, the plan could have been adjusted.
It was done that way.