Evidence of meeting #40 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mackerel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thanks.
Are you familiar with the concept of overspawning for salmon?
Co-Chair, Joint Technical Committee, Fraser Salmon Management Board
I am familiar with the concept as it has been technically described, but I believe it is misconstrued in a lot of instances.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Was the management board aware of the risks of overspawning that could basically have been predicted if the harvest were not increased last year?
Co-Chair, Joint Technical Committee, Fraser Salmon Management Board
Yes, I would say the entire board is familiar with the concept of overspawning as it's described in the literature, which is, as I said, misunderstood broadly by the public.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Good. Thank you.
I want to switch to Ms. Mavin now.
You talked about the immense preparation and investment in getting ready for a season. I think we understand that, but can you go a little further in depth on that? What's involved? How long does it take you to find crew? How long does it take to get gear? What kinds of dollars are invested to get ready for a season, when you don't know if you're going to get it or not?
Commercial Harvester, As an Individual
Thank you so much for your question.
It depends, and it varies across fisheries. I can speak about the prawn fishery specifically. With regard to sourcing crew for that fishery, when you're working on a freezer boat.... Packing on a freezer boat is a skill set, and there's a limited number of people who possess the skill of packing for the prawn fishery.
As far as preparation ahead of the season goes, preparation typically lasts about two weeks. Obviously, there's work all around the off-season that goes into maintaining your boat and things like that, but in terms of preparation for the actual fishery, it's roughly two weeks long. Getting official notice only a few days before an opening date makes it very difficult to plan around when you have two weeks of work to do first.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
You mentioned the prep work ahead of time and the packaging on the boat. Do you have to buy the packaging material and other pieces necessary for that process?
Commercial Harvester, As an Individual
Yes, you absolutely do. We get those from our buyers. They supply us with all of our processing materials for the boat.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
The time is up, Mr. Arnold.
We'll go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes please, for the Liberals.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Cyr, thank you for being with us today.
I'm a guy from New Brunswick. We probably greet each other at times from our respective shores.
You spoke about the opening and closing of fishing seasons, but also about an ecosystem that's changing a lot. There are many more predators in our regions, such as the seal, that I see at home and that I did not see before, the striped bass and so on. You even talked about great white sharks, which are becoming more and more common. I hope I won't be one of their prey when I swim near the coast, at home.
Joking aside, let's now talk about mackerel fishing. You talked about it a lot. You talked about food, but also about bait. It was the government that decided to close mackerel fishing in the 2000s. Do you think that at that time, it was a good decision to allow the stock to rebuild?
Retired Fisherman, As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
It's never a good decision to completely close a fishery. As fishers, we often have many years of fishing experience and we follow mackerel and other species, such as flounder and cod, at the time, year after year, as well as seals or any other predators that are in the area. It's a whole.
In the case of the mackerel, it may have started to change its behaviour about 10 years ago. The mackerel spends the whole day completely at the bottom of the water. It looks like a rock in the probe's images. If I can't see it on the probe, I imagine that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the DFO, can't see it either.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
As the son of a fisherman, I'd certainly like to see this fishery fully reopened one day, whether for food or for bait. Whether we like it or not, the need to obtain bait puts pressure on fishers.
However, you just said something that we haven't necessarily heard often during previous testimonies: You say that the mackerel stay deeper in the water. However, some fishers have told us that they've seen mackerel everywhere, from the bottom of the water to the surface.
What do you think about this statement? We're seeing a lot more mackerel, but do you think it's the juveniles, or the adult mackerel that are actually more capable of laying eggs?
Retired Fisherman, As an Individual
For several years, there's been an increase in the number of mackerel in the water. I'm going to share an experience with you.
Last summer, we were caught by a big storm out on the water. We had about four miles to cover on the water, and the mackerel rose to a depth of about five fathoms. It was a continuous line. We fished in several spots and the mackerel was very nice.
Often, you don't see it during the day. It swims up through the water column to the surface just before nightfall, then swims back down in the morning. When the sun rises, it goes down to the bottom. In the evening, it comes up because its stomach is empty, and it goes down in the morning because its stomach is full. It swims in the water column to feed. For that reason, it's impossible to catch it at that time.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
A certain quota has nevertheless been set for bait. If mackerel fishing were reopened with a larger quota or even for commercial fishing, do you think it would be harmful to the resource?
Retired Fisherman, As an Individual
Frankly, if we wait until the end of the mackerel spawning period, around August, September, October and November, and fish with a line tomorrow, in my opinion, we won't change the mackerel biomass at all.
Liberal
Retired Fisherman, As an Individual
Yes. I fished with a net and I know what it's like. As I said earlier, when the mackerel is too big for the nets, it drowns. It suffocates. Then it falls to the bottom and isn't counted. These are also mackerel with gonads and eggs, so they are fish that spawn.
Everyone can fish with a line. If given a long enough period, fishers from almost everywhere will be able to catch mackerel, especially if they wait until September or October, when the mackerel is fattier and better suited for human consumption and bait.
In my opinion, commercial fishers should have a weekly quota and be able to sell mackerel to the coastal community, because we were born eating mackerel. It's the same thing for herring and cod.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Mr. Cyr.
Ms. Mavin, first of all, thank you for being here.
I'm glad to see there are women in the fishery on the other coast. There are a lot of women in my area who are now captains, who own licences and are starting in the industry. I want to congratulate you on being, I think you said, the fourth generation in your family to do so. That's wonderful.
With regard to salmon, you said there were groups able to start first, while some others were last. Which groups were starting first, and which ones were last?
Commercial Harvester, As an Individual
I'm sorry. I am having trouble with my audio.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Can you hear me now?
I know my English is not that good. Maybe that is also the problem.
Can you hear me now, Ms. Mavin?
Liberal
Liberal
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much to all the witnesses for being with us today.
Mr. Cyr, I found your answers to my colleague's questions very interesting, honestly. I was actually going in that direction by asking you if, in your opinion, DFO takes enough account of the fishers' experience and memory in decision-making. You were talking about mackerel, which is an excellent example.
I think you would agree that scientific methods are not necessarily complete. Some information is missing. For example, scientists say that the moratorium helps the mackerel, and what fishers are seeing are mostly young mackerel, juveniles that are less than seven years old. You don't agree with that statement, if I understand correctly.