Evidence of meeting #8 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I've presented my work to a number of fishery officers in recent years. When I invited them to speak confidentially, most of them told me that they were terrified of their employer or their managers.
I think that's an indicator that the act isn't being applied neutrally. There seems to be a connection with external interests.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I think what you just said is extremely important. Fishery officers said they were terrified by their superiors.
Is that correct?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I can't name anyone in particular, but I don't think names are important. I'm talking more about the structure.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Are they afraid of being slapped on the wrist by a superior if they exercise their powers?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
Yes, that's what's been said in some cases.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Based on the various testimonies you have gathered, officers are therefore under pressure. My colleague's question concerned control over first nations people's fishing, among others.
Is the pressure only about first nations people's fishing? Is it also about fishing practices in general?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I don't have any details on that. Until now, I haven't had the opportunity to explore everything related to the fishery officers' practices in my research.
Unfortunately, I can't provide any more details on that subject.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
You did speak to fishery officers who have powers under the act. Their job is to enforce the regulations. They told you they were afraid to exercise their powers for fear of being rapped on the knuckles by Fisheries and Oceans Canada.
Isn't that right?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I think there's another way of looking at this.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Did I understand what you said correctly?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I don't have any specifics as to whose knuckles are getting rapped by whom.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I understand, but you said the officers were terrified. I want to make sure I understand what you said.
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
There is a generalized fear of hierarchical authority, but I can't tell you what level in the hierarchy creates that fear.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.
That concludes the first round of questions.
We're going to move into a second round, and we're going to get an almost full second round.
We'll start with Mr. Arnold for five minutes.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll carry on with Ms. Chadillon-Farinacci.
Do you feel that the current Fisheries Act and resultant regulations are sufficient for effective enforcement and for the legal system to protect the resource and local economies?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
The Fisheries Act contains a number of elements, including the broad powers of officers, as I mentioned earlier.
That said, the question concerns the context in which those powers are exercised and the means used by officers. An assessment of support and training needs could determine whether the resources are adequate.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
The legislation and regulations are there, but it's uncertain whether they're being used as effectively as they should be. Is that correct? Is that what you're saying?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
That's correct. That's why I add the need to clearly define and identify the roles and responsibilities of officers to protect the public and to protect the officers themselves when they are exercising their powers.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you.
Now I'll turn to Mr. McLinton.
When the department, DFO, fails to deliver some of the core functions such as catch monitoring and stock assessments, what are the impacts on your members?
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We need to prioritize core fisheries science. I think we're making a lot of this stuff more complicated than it needs to be, and I mean “we” collectively. Canada as a country is making this more complicated than it needs to be. We talk about things like closures, the precautionary approach and things like that, but these are backstops. When we don't have core fisheries science to know what's happening, we wouldn't even need to go to that spot. It is an absolute priority for us. We've had positive conversations with members of this committee and with the current government on that. We have to, as a country, prioritize core fisheries science.
Lack of predictability and unnecessary closures are not good for business. Just like any business, not being able to do business is not good.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
How is the current act not doing that? What would need to be changed?
If we're reviewing the act and the core functions of the department are basically in the act, what's not working?
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
Now is not the time. Now is not the time to be reopening the act.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
The act currently provides the provisions that those core functions should be done, but they're not being done.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
The current policies, regulations and powers are in place to ensure stability of access and allocation, to prioritize core fisheries science and to partner with industry on marine conservation objectives, taking socio-economic considerations into account. We can do all of those things now.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
I've also just picked up on a few pieces of the act where the minister can basically take—I wouldn't call them emergency measures—immediate measures to close fisheries in cases of stock concern.
Do you feel that the appropriate pieces are in place to allow the minister to also make decisions in the short term if increased or unexpected abundance of stocks returns?