Evidence of meeting #8 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
I would actually invite, if I may, Mr. Arnold, my colleague Mr. McMillan to comment on that in terms of the immediacy of being able to be flexible based on new information.
Colin McMillan Council Chair, Fisheries Council of Canada
Thank you, Jason. That's a very important topic.
I can give you a black and white example of where the science has failed us. Some years ago, the Pacific salmon fishery had MSC certification. I'm sure everyone's familiar with the Marine Stewardship Council and their work around the world certifying fisheries to the benefit of customers, heavily the European and U.K. retailers. The market has spoken. These days you must have certification in a number of markets to be successful.
Several years ago, our science was lacking, and the Marine Stewardship Certification process is relentless. The lack of science led us to have to abandon that certification. At the time, it was livable. Now, fast-forward to today's environment. Certification by some body, not necessarily Marine Stewardship, needs to be sanctioned by the GSSI-UN, the Global Sustainable Seafood Initiative. Without that, we're locked out of markets.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
Next, we're going to go to Mr. Klassen for five minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses.
It's very obviously quite a balancing act between preserving the fisheries and the fish in the ocean and looking after the harvesters.
I'm going to turn to Ms. Elmslie and ask the same question that Mr. Small asked of Mr. McLinton.
How effective would you say that fisheries management has been based on the act as it reads today?
Senior Campaign Director, Oceana Canada
There are some bright spots, like the 12 new rebuilding plans for stocks in the critical zone. That is a bright spot. That is where it's working.
However, the act hasn't been fully implemented. We have approximately 200 commercial stocks and the act applies to only 30 of them. They're batching them in slowly. It's a very slow process, and if it continues at the speed it's currently going, we predict it will take about 16 years to fully batch and have the law apply to all of those stocks. That is concerning to us.
We're just coming out with our ninth fishery audit. We audit the DFO on various management measures. Again, I'll provide the audit to this group for everyone to see it when it's published. Over the nine years, we haven't seen the numbers change all that much. Things have been resorted a little, but we still have only one-third of the stocks that is healthy, while another one-third is uncertain. That gets to the science question. There are probably healthy stocks in there, but we don't know. We haven't done the science. The other one-third fits into both the cautious zone and the critical zone. Those are the depleted stocks. Those in the critical zone are really depleted. There's a range.
We haven't yet seen the change that we would like to see, with more stocks trending toward healthiness. We want to see more biomass in our oceans. We want to see more fish and more fishing.
It really comes down to the implementation and getting those stocks batched.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
On the science base that we all want—the people looking at conservation, as well as the harvesters—how would you see us improving the science that we could base these kinds of scenarios on?
Senior Campaign Director, Oceana Canada
Most simply, it's funding. Funding is needed for science.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
Mr. McLinton, I'll ask you the same question because you also alluded to the improvement of the science these questions on are based on. How would you say the science has been used to make these kinds of decisions? How would you see us improving that?
President, Fisheries Council of Canada
I would agree with the witness here beside me. It is about funding.
Additionally, it's about prioritizing core fisheries science, because it's at the very core of the mandate of the department, but it's also at the very core of what the Fisheries Act is about and what the Government of Canada's role is. It's a benefit to everybody in all parts of the system—harvesters, the stocks, everything. We have to prioritize core fisheries science.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
I have a question for Ms. Chadillon-Farinacci. The minister has often talked about rebuilding trust. I noticed in your opening statement that you used the same phrase—rebuilding trust—and that you said policing approaches don't work.
I've often been involved in conflict situations. I'm wondering how you see us resolving these kinds of issues, which are often in the grey zone. I think you alluded to that. Is there room for compromise? Once we tighten up the act, is there still room left to compromise or look at situations individually?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I'm optimistic. If the act is reviewed, it will still be possible to restore that trust.
That said, it requires action as well as dialogue with not only people in the industry, but also coastal communities. They can collaborate in terms of reporting infractions. They would therefore contribute to Fisheries and Oceans Canada's mission.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Klassen.
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Chadillon-Farinacci, I'd like to come back to what you said earlier. I find your testimony quite disturbing.
I can't imagine, for example, a police officer telling me that they are reluctant to enforce the law for fear of being pressured to some extent by Public Safety Canada.
As I understand it, the idea of establishing a code of conduct would be specifically to protect fishery officers. They could refuse to give in to political pressure from their superiors, saying that they are required to act in accordance with their code of conduct.
Did I understand correctly?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
Yes, you understood correctly.
Conversely, a code of conduct could protect the public in the event of non-compliance, such as when a fishery officer refuses to carry out their duties.
The RCMP has a code of conduct enshrined in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act. They drew up a list of reasons that frame situations in which officers must exercise their powers or intervene. Failure to perform their duties is a violation of that code. In a criminal situation where the police refuse to act, there would be grounds to file a complaint. There's disciplinary action associated with that.
In summary, a code of conduct would protect both the public and fishery officers.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
When you've interviewed people, you've been told that sometimes fishery officers don't respond to reports that come in.
Is that what I'm hearing you say?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
Yes, that's correct.
Furthermore, these situations were presented to the committee during its studies. As a result of access to information requests, emails containing dozens and dozens of reports from fishing businesses can be consulted. They saw people engaged in illegal fishing, and they called out the apparent inaction by fishery officers. This undermines the relationship between the public and fishery officers.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I agree with that.
How do you explain them doing nothing in these cases?
Was it a directive from their superiors?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
I can't answer that. I can only observe behaviours and document them.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Okay.
According to your observations, illegal behaviour was reported several times to fishery officers, but the officers did not intervene.
Is it a lack of resources? Is it related to restricted freedom to operate?
Associate Professor of Criminology, University of Moncton, As an Individual
An independent body could investigate complaints related to a code of conduct. It could determine whether it was failure to allocate resources or misuse of discretion by officers, in the event of a refusal to intervene, for example. That would be part of their mandate and it would be part of the code of conduct.
October 23rd, 2025 / 10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes.
For the last two questions we'll go with four minutes, so I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Gunn for four minutes.
Conservative
Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Elmslie, this is a question for you. Do you believe that it's legitimate or should be permitted for environmental or other political activist groups to launch fundraising campaigns in the United States to shut down industries here in Canada?
Senior Campaign Director, Oceana Canada
I'm not sure I completely understand the question.
