Subcommittee on Food Safety Committee on June 10th, 2009

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

My understanding is that she was--

[Anu Bose]

But I was searching, trying to find her, Mr. Shipley.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Trying to find her?

[Anu Bose]

Yes. We didn't know where she had an office.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Oh, well, actually, we should have asked Mr. Easter, because he's been complaining about where she's been ever since the start of the investigation. He said that she's hooked up with the minister's office. So she's not been hard to find. Actually, it's on her website. She would be easy to get hold of.

[Anu Bose]

Well, it wasn't on the website three months ago. I'm sorry, Mr. Shipley, but I had to call Mr. Anderson's office--

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Absolutely, he would be helpful.

[Anu Bose]

Yes, and Mr. Anderson's office asked me to call Mr. Ritz's office, and I said I preferred to talk to Mr. Anderson's office, and then I got it.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Anyway, we understand she came on in January, and the first month or so he would look after it. We know that. He would give the documents, and I understand interviews started in March. So I apologize if you couldn't find her, but it seems that when you did, actually you had a good interview, and I appreciate those comments.

I want to go to Toxin Alert. I appreciate our friends coming in from the United States. Thank you so much. We've had a lot of discussion around when food gets contaminated. We sort of start from the food to the fork. You've used that analogy all of us are familiar with. Do you have any indication of where most of the contamination is coming from? I don't understand your process completely. It seems to me that there's a product put on a film that goes over the ready-to-eat products, and if something shows up, it glows in the dark.

[Mike Espy]

In layman's terms, which are the only terms in which I can relate it, we produce an antibody that would be engineered to detect a certain pathogen, be it salmonella, listeria, or whatever, in partnership with whoever's going to produce a plastic bag. The antibodies are sprayed onto a plastic bag, and then when the invading, dangerous antibody appears, it's engineered for a visual signal.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I understood that right. So once you open the package.... Now I'm the consumer, and I've opened the package and taken it out--

[Mike Espy]

You wouldn't open it.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

But if I want to eat it, I have to open it.

[Mike Espy]

Well, if it's contaminated--

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

We've had a lot of discussion about contamination. Obviously, listeria happened at the Maple Leaf plant. We know that. It was very deep in the slicer. We know that for much of the contamination--we have 12 to 13 million cases a year, they say--you have a multiplication factor of that, which leads to another question I'd like to ask. Once you take it out as a consumer, you have an impact once it is open. Is that correct? It can be contaminated after it's opened?

[William T. (Bill) Bodenhamer]

The number that is used by everyone in the industry and by us is that 80% of food contamination is caused after the package is opened.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Attaran or Mr. Wilson, when you talked about the 100 bacteria per gram and how bad we are in Canada, can you tell me where we are relative to those other countries in the 30, in terms of incidents of sickness? We're at the bottom, so we must have a lot more deaths. We must have a lot more illnesses. And yet I'm not hearing that when I talk to my colleagues from the United States when they talk about the ratio of food-borne illnesses.

[Dr. Amir Attaran]

That is a very intelligent question to pose. Unfortunately, it cannot be accurately answered, given the state of surveillance for disease. Currently a number of countries--by no means only Canada, but Canada included--do not have adequate methods to carry out surveillance and record each instance of listeriosis that occurs. So the ratio--

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

But what about other food-borne also--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Shipley, you're out of time.

[Dr. Amir Attaran]

The ratio of disease caused by different standards is not something that is accurately measured right now, and that's unfortunate. But your question is a very good one, and if we had an answer to it, that would be very good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much to our witnesses.

We have votes we have to run for, but thank you very much for attending here today. We appreciate your input into our study on food safety. Thank you very much.

We'll recess until after the votes.