Subcommittee on Food Safety Committee on April 22nd, 2009

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

I appreciate the candour, but there is a timeline that I think most of us accept in the sense of who entered when and what they did, whether the CFIA; or Maple Leaf Foods, through Michael McCain, who became the very public face of this crisis; or other departments.

What I'm really asking is, are you aware that there is more than the Department of Agriculture involved here? I'll give you a couple of quick points. Maple Leaf Foods actually contacted Kevin Lynch at one point, who talked to a policy adviser at International Trade. So a lot of other folks were contacted besides just the ones you would perhaps think they were speaking to in the Department Agriculture, because it deals with the CFIA; and perhaps the PMO, because it may have been an issue for the Prime Minister's Office to look at, because of the magnitude of the issue. So there are other ministries involved.

So I guess the question really is, are you talking to those other ministries and requesting those documents from them, which may well be there—in fact, I'm sure they are—so you can have a fulsome report when you actually issue it?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Mr. Chairman, we're following the evidence wherever it takes us and requesting documents wherever that evidence points. We have had very good cooperation in receiving documents. We are absolutely dedicated to getting this timeline clear and fully understood. One of the areas contained in our terms of reference is to understand and evaluate the communication between departments, ministries, and food safety partners. We are taking that seriously, and it is part of our investigation.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

To follow up on that and keeping on that line of different ministries—and I appreciate the fact that we're looking beyond what one might think would be the obvious ministries—are any ministries coming to you on a voluntary basis? Are they saying they had a conversation with so-and-so about this particular thing, or they think they might have had conversations about things that may indeed pertain to this but they aren't certain, and asking you take a look at and review the documents and let them know if that's of help to you?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Mr. Chairman, while I can't give you specific names, dates, and whatever, I can assure you that, yes, we have people coming to us from the federal system, industry, and the provincial systems. People are anxious to talk about what happened last summer, to get to the bottom of it, and to ensure we do whatever we can so it doesn't happen again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired, Mr. Allen.

We'll now move to Mr. Anderson for seven minutes.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Weatherill, I'd like to welcome you to the subcommittee.

As you know, the subcommittee is a complement to the work we see you doing as an independent investigator. We're looking forward to your doing a thorough job, in spite of what the opposition seems to be saying. We know that's not going to be easy, because there's a lot of misinformation out there. We appreciate your being here today. It takes courage and commitment to come.

The Prime Minister has confidence in you. He said when he asked you to do this job:

Protecting the health of Canadian families and the safety of the Canadian food supply is of paramount importance to our government. I am confident that Sheila Weatherill has the expertise required to independently examine the factors that contributed to the listeriosis outbreak and make recommendations on how to prevent a similar occurrence in the future.

I think the reason he made that statement is based upon your qualifications. Mr. Storseth touched a bit on that in his point of order, but I would like to read into the record some of that background, and maybe you might want to complete it if I don't have it all here when we're done. I think it's important that people understand there's much more to you than Mr. Easter, in particular, has portrayed in some of his comments.

It's my understanding that you are an experienced health professional and highly regarded in your field. You have earned your B.Sc. in nursing and post-graduate diploma in public health from the University of Alberta. You have the high honour of being named one of Canada's 100 most powerful women by the Women's Executive Network in not just 2003 but I understand 2004, 2005, and 2006, and that you were admitted to its hall of fame in 2007. In July 2006, you were appointed a member of the Order of Canada. In November 2006, the Prime Minister appointed you as a member of his Prime Minister's advisory committee on the public service. You've talked a little bit about that, and I certainly think that's a tribute to you that you've made the decision to contribute to that committee as well. These are all laudable achievements showing your professionalism.

Your experience in the field of health issues—and Mr. Storseth can probably talk more to this than I can—includes your time as president and CEO of Capital Health in Edmonton, Alberta, from 1996 to 2006. Recently you've done important work in support of the heart institute in Alberta, including the development of the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute, which is western Canada's first heart institute.

And I understand that's not all. You also have experience serving on many boards of directors, including being an associate member of the faculty of nursing at the University of Alberta, and have served previously on boards such as the Conference Board of Canada, the Canadian Institute for Health Information, the Association of Canadian Academic Healthcare Organizations, and the Edmonton YMCA.

Mr. Easter had mentioned the Prime Minister's mandate to you. I think this is a short version of what he said, but you were charged to independently examine the factors to prevent a similar reoccurrence. They say your credibility is not something they're questioning, but it seems to me that at least two of the parties indicated they're not prepared to let you do your work before they judge whether you're capable of doing that. I think it's disappointing that they seem to want to see you fail at this.

I just want to ask this. Do you feel you have the authority to independently examine those factors and to make the conclusions you feel you need to in order to prevent a similar reoccurrence? Are you comfortable with the mandate you've been given?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would point again to the team we've assembled for this investigation, including our outside experts who are advising us. I have been a public servant for several years and have enjoyed that role, but I've also had significant experience dealing with serious health system concerns. I have expertise in governance and accountability and in dealing with complex environments. This work is certainly in a complex environment. I've had many years of experience in public health as well as in long-term care. So I believe we have the right expertise to get the job done.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Ms. Weatherill, Mr. Easter mentioned the terms of reference. I think it might be a good idea to read them into the record, so I'm going to do that. I hope I have time to do that, Mr. Chair. I'm just going to read them in so everybody understands what they are:

The independent investigator into the August 2008 listeriosis outbreak related to certain processed meat products from Maple Leaf Foods shall:

(i) examine the events, circumstances and factors that contributed to the listeriosis outbreak;

(ii) review the efficiency and effectiveness of the response of the federal organizations, in conjunction with their food safety system partners, in terms of prevention, recall of contaminated products and collaboration and communication with their food safety system partners and consumers--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Point of order, Mr. Easter?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I'm not going to object strenuously, Mr. Chair, if the parliamentary secretary wants to read them in, but look, we've all had these terms of references. We went through them with a fine-tooth comb. We have two hours with Ms. Weatherill. I think it would be more sensible—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I don't think it's a point of order, Mr. Easter. He's allowed to use his seven minutes as he sees fit.

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, obviously we've spent time on this issue. The Canadian public may not be as aware of these things as we are, so I certainly would like to finish reading the terms of reference, even though the opposition seems to want to keep that hidden from Canadians.

I'll continue:

(iii) make recommendations, based on lessons learned from that event and from other countries in terms of best practices, as to what can be done to enhance both the prevention of a similar outbreak occurrence in the future and the removal of contaminated products from the food supply;

(iv) perform her duties without expressing any conclusion or recommendation regarding civil or criminal liability of any person or organization.

--we've already spoken to that--

(v) adopt procedures for the expedient and proper conduct of an investigation, including reviewing relevant records and documents and consulting as appropriate;

(vi) submit to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, in both official languages, by July 20, 2009, a report on the matters listed in sub-paragraphs (i) to (iv).

As you see, Ms. Weatherill, the opposition has made much of these terms of reference. I think they would attempt to undermine your credibility by saying—as they've already done—that the terms of reference don't give you the authority to do your job properly. Do you feel they do give you the authority to do your job as you need to do it?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Mr. Chairman, yes, I believe I have the power, mandate, and resources to fulfill the expectations and conduct this investigation.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You're not the first person, actually, who has said that. On Monday we heard from Mr. McCain. His comment was that he had every confidence in you and the job you were doing. He said that he is fully cooperating, which you have confirmed today. I think these thoughts were then echoed by the CFIA, when the president, Ms. Swan, said that she and her organization are fully cooperating and have every confidence as well.

I find it interesting that the opposition would laugh at that. Once again, it indicates, I think, that they really don't have as much interest in getting to the bottom of this as they do in trying to make some political points out of it.

Actually, because of the disregard they seem to have for the process, I would like to just quote from The Toronto Star, from an editorial that talked about you specifically. It said: “The critics are overreaching. Weatherill's past experience can only aid her search for best practices. And it's not clear to us that Canada needs another costly and lengthy forum for lawyers to cross-examine those involved in the outbreak. All indications are that the main players will co-operate.”

In the Ottawa Citizen, there was an editorial that said: “The appointment of Sheila Weatherill, a former Edmonton health authority president, to head a federal probe into last summer's deadly listeriosis outbreak is a welcome step to restoring confidence in Canada's food safety system.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

He's just at the limit because of the time that I allowed for you.

If you have a question, Mr. Anderson....

I have the time in front of me, Ms. Bennett. You can leave that job up to me. Thank you.

Mr. Anderson, do you have a question?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Just to conclude, I just want to make sure all the parties are cooperating with you. Are they?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Yes, they are, Mr. Chairman. I have full cooperation.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Before we move on to the second round, Ms. Weatherill, I'd like to be clear here. In any contact you've had with the minister's office and so on, has everything you have requested related to whatever...? There have been no issues in getting that forwarded to your office, have there?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Mr. Chairman, we've had full cooperation. All our requests have been met. Everything we've asked for has been provided. I have had, though, no contact with the minister's office. I had not met Minister Ritz before I took this on and was introduced to him in a brief meeting in the first few days of my mandate. I'm not dealing directly with his office.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to the second round. Five minutes, Ms. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Weatherill, one of the concerns that people have had is that there was political interference in what should have been a public health reaction. In the report from the chief public health officer of Ontario on Friday, one of the recommendations was that the federal chief public health officer or designate should be the official media spokesman for the national outbreak. That's actually in his job description already.

How will you go about finding out if there was indeed political interference from either the Prime Minister's Office or from other ministers' offices? Will you have access to the e-mail tracks? Will you have access to the rather damning teleconference that was leaked? Will you have transcripts of that? How will you find out if there was indeed political interference in the management of this outbreak?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Mr. Chairman, as I said earlier, we are following the evidence wherever it leads us. Part of our mandate is to look at the communication that occurred at the time of the outbreak, the communication between the federal agencies and departments and government, and also look at the communication to Canadians and how Canadians actually viewed that communication.

We have access to all documents that we need. We have had no refusal of anything we've asked for. This is something that is part of the investigation we're conducting. It's in the mandate, it's in the terms of reference, and it is something that we've heard about. We've had several meetings with the public health officials in Ontario, so we understand the questions that are out there.

Certainly, there has been extraordinary cooperation from the Public Health Agency of Canada, their staff, and recently we've brought onto our team a former medical officer of health from Ontario who herself had experience with a food-borne outbreak. I think we have the right people, we have the power to get at the information, and it is part of our mandate to look at the communication that followed this outbreak.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

There's nobody on your team who seems to have had experience in terms of the difference between political staff and government staff, or how government actually works, and where there is that interface in terms of politics. Will you have access to the e-mail track between the Prime Minister's Office and the minister's office, as well as the departmental officials?

[Sheila Weatherill]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, we have had full cooperation and full access to all documents that we've requested. We'll continue to follow the--